More Primary Fun

[cjjtulsa]

Bush was only better than Gore, and there was still that whole "chad" thing in Florida.

 

[Glocktogo]

I was there. While there were many problems with the way things were done, such as people being checked in improperly at registration and having to skip lunch in order to vote on issues, the stall tactics by the Ron Paul folks were just a bit too much. They wanted the rules changed so we voted on it and they were denied, they wanted a 2nd slate with all Ron Paul supporters being the chosen national delegates and we voted and they got denied. Then they proclaimed voter fraud since it didn't go their way.

Basically the same thing happened in Arizona - stall the convention until you tire everyone else out or the place gets shut down, then hold their own convention in the parking lot saying that it was really a continuation of an illegal convention - throw out the rules, elect a new chairman, throw out the chosen delegates and replace with their own - all while screaming at people, booing officials, and calling everyone else "Romney supporters" or "Rombies".

I like some of the stuff that Ron Paul says, I like the way he votes, and I like the way he gets other candidates talking about issues that normally would take a back seat. It's the in-your-face and if-you-aren't-with-us-we-despise-you supporters of Ron Paul that really give less credence to his cause. I think if that same passion for a candidate would be used to help convince other people rather than strong-arm them it would do his candidacy a lot of good.

So there's no cronyism or apparatchiks in the Republican party at the state level? When the primary candidates supported by the state Republican party don't adhere to the principles of the GOP, what does it take to institute a change at that level? Does the state level Republican party care more about fielding a candidiate that represents Republican principles of governance, or electability?

These are the questions that haunt your average Republican voter. Sadly, they usually go unanswered, leaving us to guess for ourselves what is or isn't important within the party. I've yet to have one single piece of correspondence from the GOP at the state or national level that actually focuses on these issues.

"Meet the new boss...same as the old boss..."

 

[TulsaBandit]

So there's no cronyism or apparatchiks in the Republican party at the state level? When the primary candidates supported by the state Republican party don't adhere to the principles of the GOP, what does it take to institute a change at that level? Does the state level Republican party care more about fielding a candidiate that represents Republican principles of governance, or electability?

These are the questions that haunt your average Republican voter. Sadly, they usually go unanswered, leaving us to guess for ourselves what is or isn't important within the party. I've yet to have one single piece of correspondence from the GOP at the state or national level that actually focuses on these issues.

"Meet the new boss...same as the old boss..."

I think the best way to get things changed is from within. Become active in local precinct meetings, run as an elected official, work your way up the chain to get things done and change the things that need fixed. I DON'T think the way to get things changed is through the use of e-mail bombs, chanting "Ron Paul" at the Governor (even though her declaration of us having a nominee already was incorrect), or waiting until the state convention to try and get the process for national delegates changed. Get on the rules committee, get on the executive committee, call Matt Pinnell or JB Alexander and voice your concerns.

 

[Glocktogo]

I think the best way to get things changed is from within. Become active in local precinct meetings, run as an elected official, work your way up the chain to get things done and change the things that need fixed. I DON'T think the way to get things changed is through the use of e-mail bombs, chanting "Ron Paul" at the Governor (even though her declaration of us having a nominee already was incorrect), or waiting until the state convention to try and get the process for national delegates changed. Get on the rules committee, get on the executive committee, call Matt Pinnell or JB Alexander and voice your concerns.

What odds would you give that this would actually be effective? Do you think the negative view many party members have of the Republican establishment is unrecognized or ignored?

 

[henschman]

I was at the convention. TulsaBandit, I'm not sure how you can call us Ron Paul folks' strategy "stall tactics," when all we did was make legitimate motions according to Robert's Rules and the OKGOP rules. In fact, these motions were kept to a minimum and we only let our experienced Robert's Rules experts make motions for us. We didn't even contest the nomination of the Chairman. It sounds like you don't have much experience with conventions -- opposing motions are a part of the process. If you expect everyone to get together to just rubber stamp the decision of the Executive Committee, why bother even having a convention in the first place?

You also glossed over the part about how the Convention Chairman violated the OKGOP rules by allowing the establishment delegate slate to be elected by a (rather dubious) standing vote instead of a roll call (ballot) vote as required by the rules, and adjourned the convention in violation of the rules. This amounted to an ineffective adjournment and vacation of the chair. Consequently, we Ron Paul supporters declared the chair vacant and continued the convention outside, re-conducting all of the business of the convention, including credentials (which were never properly done earlier), election of the delegate and alternate slates and National Committeeman and woman, ratification of the platform, and resolution of the 1st District Convention controversy.

You also glossed over the part about how there were at least two incidents of Romney supporters allegedly physically assaulting Ron Paul supporters, one of which was caught on video.

So basically the way it went was: Ron Paul supporters followed the rules, and Romney supporters broke the rules.

On another note, it was very humorous to hear Gov. Mary "Bailout Queen" Fallin address the convention and talk about fiscal conservatism and keeping the government within it's means. And I don't know what kind of reaction she and Tim Pawlenty were expecting when addressing a sharply divided crowd, with loyalty split between the two remaining candidates, when they told the crowd that everyone needed to get behind one of them... but the reaction was pretty predictable. The Romney people cheered and the Ron Paul people booed and broke into chants of "Ron Paul." Fallin chose to close with the snarky remark that "apparently there are some Obama lovers in here!" At least Pawlenty had the good sense to throw the Romney stumping in the middle of the speech, and close on more positive and broadly-appealing remarks. I don't know what they thought would happen trying to plug Obama-lite in the reddest state in the country, but it made for an interesting convention.

 

[been]

I was at the convention. TulsaBandit, I'm not sure how you can call us Ron Paul folks' strategy "stall tactics," when all we did was make legitimate motions according to Robert's Rules and the OKGOP rules. In fact, these motions were kept to a minimum and we only let our experienced Robert's Rules experts make motions for us. We didn't even contest the nomination of the Chairman. It sounds like you don't have much experience with conventions -- opposing motions are a part of the process. If you expect everyone to get together to just rubber stamp the decision of the Executive Committee, why bother even having a convention in the first place?

You also glossed over the part about how the Convention Chairman violated the OKGOP rules by allowing the establishment delegate slate to be elected by a (rather dubious) standing vote instead of a roll call (ballot) vote as required by the rules, and adjourned the convention in violation of the rules. This amounted to an ineffective adjournment and vacation of the chair. Consequently, we Ron Paul supporters declared the chair vacant and continued the convention outside, re-conducting all of the business of the convention, including credentials (which were never properly done earlier), election of the delegate and alternate slates and National Committeeman and woman, ratification of the platform, and resolution of the 1st District Convention controversy.

You also glossed over the part about how there were at least two incidents of Romney supporters allegedly physically assaulting Ron Paul supporters, one of which was caught on video.

So basically the way it went was: Ron Paul supporters followed the rules, and Romney supporters broke the rules.

On another note, it was very humorous to hear Gov. Mary "Bailout Queen" Fallin address the convention and talk about fiscal conservatism and keeping the government within it's means. And I don't know what kind of reaction she and Tim Pawlenty were expecting when addressing a sharply divided crowd, with loyalty split between the two remaining candidates, when they told the crowd that everyone needed to get behind one of them... but the reaction was pretty predictable. The Romney people cheered and the Ron Paul people booed and broke into chants of "Ron Paul." Fallin chose to close with the snarky remark that "apparently there are some Obama lovers in here!" At least Pawlenty had the good sense to throw the Romney stumping in the middle of the speech, and close on more positive and broadly-appealing remarks. I don't know what they thought would happen trying to plug Obama-lite in the reddest state in the country, but it made for an interesting convention.

sounds like fun!

 

[henschman]

It was interesting to say the least!

 

[LightningCrash]

lol at the 'supporting ron paul==loving obama' bit

it's hard to believe people are that stupid.

 

[Glocktogo]

lol at the 'supporting ron paul==loving obama' bit

it's hard to believe people are that stupid.

Just shows what those in power will do to marginalize those that want them out.

 

[RickN]

I was there. While there were many problems with the way things were done, such as people being checked in improperly at registration and having to skip lunch in order to vote on issues, the stall tactics by the Ron Paul folks were just a bit too much. They wanted the rules changed so we voted on it and they were denied, they wanted a 2nd slate with all Ron Paul supporters being the chosen national delegates and we voted and they got denied. Then they proclaimed voter fraud since it didn't go their way.

Basically the same thing happened in Arizona - stall the convention until you tire everyone else out or the place gets shut down, then hold their own convention in the parking lot saying that it was really a continuation of an illegal convention - throw out the rules, elect a new chairman, throw out the chosen delegates and replace with their own - all while screaming at people, booing officials, and calling everyone else "Romney supporters" or "Rombies".

I like some of the stuff that Ron Paul says, I like the way he votes, and I like the way he gets other candidates talking about issues that normally would take a back seat. It's the in-your-face and if-you-aren't-with-us-we-despise-you supporters of Ron Paul that really give less credence to his cause. I think if that same passion for a candidate would be used to help convince other people rather than strong-arm them it would do his candidacy a lot of good.

This is the same kind of thing RP supporters have been doing for years, and one of the biggest reasons I and many others can not get behind him. I have seen this kind of crap to many times in the past.

I think the best way to get things changed is from within. Become active in local precinct meetings, run as an elected official, work your way up the chain to get things done and change the things that need fixed. I DON'T think the way to get things changed is through the use of e-mail bombs, chanting "Ron Paul" at the Governor (even though her declaration of us having a nominee already was incorrect), or waiting until the state convention to try and get the process for national delegates changed. Get on the rules committee, get on the executive committee, call Matt Pinnell or JB Alexander and voice your concerns.

Bingo!!!! I have been saying this for years. You want change? Get involved and do it right because the only way change will ever come is from the ground up.