RE: Concealment Challenge January 29 at Heartland Outdoors

[David E]

Mitch, you forget there was a witness. I should've handled it better at the time, but that doesn't change the fact: you shot the wall. It's been two years ago, you're not coming back, so it's a non-issue.

Andreii, one problem is not knowing who the shooters are. I can guess how long a given stage "should" take, but there are always variables. Again, I've listed various reasons why your tier system won't work for Action shooting matches. Not just this one, but any of them. And, again, "we" have been doing this since 1975, yet, there are still bottle-necks and open stages. We can guesstimate pretty well, but that doesn't mean everything runs on a tight schedule like static shooting matches do.

Andreii, I hope you give the Action shooting sports a few more tries, as you did say you had fun. But be prepared to wait a bit.

 

[Mitch H.]

Mitch, you forget there was a witness. I should've handled it better at the time, but that doesn't change the fact: you shot the wall. It's been two years ago, you're not coming back, so it's a non-issue.

David, I would be very interested to know who this "witness" is. Also, please answer the questions asked. Are you now telling me that I did something that was so blatantly unsafe that I was banned from shooting your match again, but nothing was said at that point, I wasn't stopped, I wasn't DQ'ed, my score stood and I wasn't notified I was banned?

Kinda goes against common sense. Almost seems like you are merely trying to slander me.

Any comment on the Range Officer's Creed?

 

[David E]

It was the scorekeeper.

Yes, I should've stopped you and DQ'd you on the spot. It was second match we had, on the flashlight/surprise stage. Based on your actions, I stopped the match, brought ALL the shooters in and told them NOT TO SHOOT ACROSS THE RANGE, AS THEIR BULLETS WOULD HIT THE WALL AS YOURS DID. You had already left. Your actions prompted me to include such a basic thing as "don't shoot across the range, as you'll get DQ'd" into the Range Safety Protocols I post in each match announcement.

But if you insist on official notification, ok: You are banned from shooting ANY matches I run at Heartland Outdoors.

 

[Mitch H.]

Thanks for the notification Dave. Again, ******** that it happened. But it's impossible to disprove a negative. So we will all just have to believe that after 30 years in the shooting sports you didn't immediately stop the shooter, that you didn't DQ an experienced shooter when he was so blatantly unsafe, that you didn't immediately point out to him he had shot into a wall, that his score stood as shot and that you didn't inform said shooter he was banned from your match til he dared to point out the Range Officer's Creed to you. Sure, I buy that just as others will. Pretty pathetic Dave. I'm done with your pathetic attempt to slander me. Feel free to stop by the shop sometime so we can discuss it like men.

 

[technetium-99m]

Andrei, knowing your match background makes sense. That discipline is very regimented from what I understand. Times for people to shoot are easily known. These matches depend entirely upon the people who shoot to determine stage turn time. Time can vary greatly due to shooter speed scoring disputes etc. These things can't be predicted. The evening you shot is an anomoly since there were so many people there. The only thing you can do to control that is to cap your enrollment which doesn't really make anyone happy. It address people signing up in advance, we do just that at our regional and higher matches. You know when you shoot and who else is on your squad. Backups still happened though. Its not uncommon to have hour plus waits at large venues due to unforeseen circumstances. Its just the nature of the beast when you have props etc. There are a few local shoots that have had success with preregistration but they are the exception. As to my comment about small squads not being optimal, you need to develop a mental picture of how you are going to shoot a particular course if you plan to do well. I've been to matches where you have to set the stage for yourself and it always impacts performance. Long story short there isn't a club around who knows what to expect before they show up that morning. It can make for a long day I admit.

I do hope to see you at more of the matches though, Ponca City puts on a good one that is usually smaller if shooting and scooting is what you're looking for.

 

[David E]

Mitch, you don't remember shooting that last target from UNDER and across a "wall," which, as you know, are always deemed to go all the way to the ground unless otherwise specified. If you don't, that's not a good thing. But call it whatever you want, your shot went across the range, impacting the concrete wall.

Andreii, tell you what. If you want to give the Carrygun match another try, see me and I'll let you shoot the next match for FREE. If you shoot this Sunday, there likely won't be a large crowd and we'll get done pretty fast.

 

[XDnOK]

50 shooters Sunday night in a 2 bay range, wow, yes it was a little crowded. 1100 PM heading home with a very sore throat from giving nearly 125 separate sets of range commands over 5 stages, well maybe a few less I had a little help :-)) not to mention helping quite a few new shooters to feel comfortable in front a large crowd, several coaching moments, scoring questions, I thought we did ok. Most of the people on my squad seemed to be understanding of the situation and made the best of it and seemed to have fun. Shooting sports seem to be experiencing quite a bit growth lately and unfortunately every venue I shoot at seems to be getting crowded so I just enjoy the company of the people on my squad, help score, tape and reset to pass the time.

Wes

 

[cernstus]

I am sorry, I try not to get drawn into these heated discussion, however I find myself unable to abstain from commenting. ( usually leading to my undoing! Lol) from what I have read, the RO at these matches seem completely disinterested in the safety of the competitors. In a public forum we have been given two self admitted of DQ worthy offenses taking place yet no one was DQ'd? As a fellow shooter and the father of a 14 year old who also competes, I find this very disconcerting! I have seen shooters DQ'd before, even seen one friend, with a heavy heart DQ a good friend solely because safety is paramount with firearms! Is this a learned behavior or something taught at RO training? I would certainly hope that if I were unsafe I would be sent home if for no other reason than to teach my kids that the rules are universal!

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

I am sorry, I try not to get drawn into these heated discussion, however I find myself unable to abstain from commenting. ( usually leading to my undoing! Lol) from what I have read, the RO at these matches seem completely disinterested in the safety of the competitors. In a public forum we have been given two self admitted of DQ worthy offenses taking place yet no one was DQ'd? As a fellow shooter and the father of a 14 year old who also competes, I find this very disconcerting! I have seen shooters DQ'd before, even seen one friend, with a heavy heart DQ a good friend solely because safety is paramount with firearms! Is this a learned behavior or something taught at RO training? I would certainly hope that if I were unsafe I would be sent home if for no other reason than to teach my kids that the rules are universal!

Understandable, i can tell you i have seen numerous people DQ'd from this match and i feel very safe at this match. Sometimes on a forum you get a 1% glimpse of what goes on. I was not present at either of the "instances" described so therefore i will not comment on them. I can only say that my experience has been (i have attended probably over 20 matches) that people have been DQ'd and safety is a top priority, in fact a new shooter orientation is gone over before every match and even since the last match some rules on holsters have changed to ensure ever higher level of safety. I would say (just like with anything in life), don't let the exception paint a picture of whole match (also there may be more to the story that is not being discussed in this forum, i don't know).

 

[Pstmstr]

True. In the most recent case, the relatively new RO made the decision to give a new shooter a 2nd chance. The pistol was unloaded and the RO did stop him right as he was pulling it from the holster. That being said, it was a DQ offense and the shooter should have been DQ'd, explained what they did wrong, and hopefully come back next time. I've had to DQ several in the 3 years I've had my RO certification and I hated to with each one. 2 were new shooters and both came back to play again. We can't take safety too lightly. I was DQ'd myself in a match I paid $100 to enter for a stupid mistake I fully deserved to be. Action shooting is a very safe sport, you're son is more likely to be beaned by an errant foul ball or golf shot than he is a bullet but I definitely understand the concern. A DQable, offense needs to result in the shooter being done for today. I think the intention in this instance was good. We've all learned from it.