Riechs Revolver 1883

[Lotahp1]

OK I have done a little research and believe I have found out I have a 1883 Riechs Revolver. My Granddad always told me it was a 44 s&w Russian but think it is a 10.6mm to be exact but can shoot 44 S&W Russian. Here lies my first question. Is 44 S&W Russian a blackpowder round? I think 10.6mm is. Please tell me more about this gun. value? Not for sale. Is part of my not for sale collection from my Granddad. I would like to shoot it in rememberance of my Granddad a few times a year but want to be sure on ammo etc. I think he has shot it as we always bought 44 S&W Russian ammo at gunshows when we saw it. In fact I bought 5 loose rounds at the Wannamacher gun show along with some 25-20 for another of his guns. I have also found out tonight that a couple of companies still make ammo and its not very expensive in the grand scheme of things and how many times I want to shoot. Just want more info and be sure of ammo before I go to range with it.

Thanks for all info,
Kris

 

[flatwins]

OK I have done a little research and believe I have found out I have a 1883 Riechs Revolver. My Granddad always told me it was a 44 s&w Russian but think it is a 10.6mm to be exact but can shoot 44 S&W Russian. Here lies my first question. Is 44 S&W Russian a blackpowder round? I think 10.6mm is. Please tell me more about this gun. value? Not for sale. Is part of my not for sale collection from my Granddad. I would like to shoot it in rememberance of my Granddad a few times a year but want to be sure on ammo etc. I think he has shot it as we always bought 44 S&W Russian ammo at gunshows when we saw it. In fact I bought 5 loose rounds at the Wannamacher gun show along with some 25-20 for another of his guns. I have also found out tonight that a couple of companies still make ammo and its not very expensive in the grand scheme of things and how many times I want to shoot. Just want more info and be sure of ammo before I go to range with it.

Thanks for all info,
Kris

The 44 Russian was originally a black powder cartridge, yes. It is the father of the 44 Special and the grand daddy of the 44 Magnum. Lee makes reloading dies for the 44 Russian. I'm just guessing but you could probably trim 44 Mag cases and use them.

Hodgdon lists a few loads for it, most all being under 1000 ft\second and low pressure. Trail Boss powder would probably work well since it tends to simulate black powder. It would be a fun one to load for, me thinks.

 

[bfoster]

Here's some technical information on the 10.55X25 Cartridge, also known as the 10.6, 10.8, and 11mm German service revolver cartridge. The source is Hatcher's Textbook of Firearms Investigation, Identification and Evidence, 2935, Small Arms Technical Publishing Co., Onslow County, North Carolina, 1935, p. 362.

Bullet weight 262 grains
Bullet diameter 0.428"
Bullet Length 0.74"
Diameter cartridge head 0.504"
Diameter cartridge body 0.451"
Length of Case 0.95"
Length of Loaded Cartridge 1.21"
Powder Charge 20.5 grains Black
I have no information on rim thickness.

It's not likely, but you may have to shorten the crimp die as the case length of the 44 S&W Russian is 0.97"- most crimp dies will accommodate a case length a bit too short, some won't. My dies are made by Redding- they will crimp a 0.950" long case.

This was a designed as a black powder cartridge. I do not know that it was eventually loaded with smokeless powder though it is likely- many of the military handgun cartridges designed late in the black powder era were. You should note that the factory charge of black powder is less than that of the S&W Russian (23 Grains) by ~10%. Therefore, any load of smokeless used must be very light indeed: do not use 44 Russian load data. I'd not want to exceed 700 fps with smokeless.

Two bullets come to mind:

Ideal 429215- the Anderton bullet, a 205 grain RN, NOT the later SWC that that "took over" this number. Early versions of this mould cast bullets (1:15) as heavy as 215 grains. It is exceptionally accurate over a full load of black powder in a 44 Russian chambered New Service Target I have.

Ideal/Lyman 429383- I don't know if this bullet will fit your revolver. It works well in some 44 Russian and 44 Special revolvers and is closer to the correct weight for service ammunition (nominally 245 grains, earlier versions cast bullets of about 262 grains), however, it is "pointier" (thus longer) than the original service bullet. This may make a cartridge, even with a deep seated bullet, too long to properly chamber.

Avoid deep seating if you use smokeless powder- it can cause pressure to rise dramatically (blown up revolver, injured shooter...) 429383 is still in production, you may find it worth a try if you do not want to search for a mould to make the long out of production 42921 Anderton Bullet. You might also consider one of the custom mould manufacturers.

Revolvers designed for black powder are just that, any smokeless load used must be limited by the mechanical strength of the firearm. Therefore black powder loads are preferable by far. You may need card wads etc. to correctly load black powder for this cartridge.

I have loaded as much as 3.2 grains of Bullseye behind the 429383 in 44 Russian revolvers, in the cartridge you're working with I'd not recommend such a load. I'd start at about 2.3 grains of Bullseye with the 429383. Better a stuck bullet that has to be removed with a brass rod than overpressure... and work up very cautiously- no more than 0.1 grain at a time- whan I got to 660 - 700 fps I'd stop.

Bob

 

[Lotahp1]

wow lots of info. I kind of know what you are talking about. Not really a reloader. I have always wanted to mess with it a bit but never have. Can I shoot the 44 s&w Russian from this gun safely? I have a few rounds I picked up here and there and they make new. Or is the current stuff for sale smokeless? The rounds I picked up at the gun show were made by Western and Remington UMC

Thanks again, And let here some info on the gun it self if anyone knows,
Kris

 

[bfoster]

In my opinion your safest course is handloading.

It seems that you do not know much about the old Remington and Winchester 44 S&W rounds you've picked up at gun shows; it is an area of specialist knowledge- I'm not much more qualified than you, therefore I'll offer only a general opinion. They may be black powder cartridges, they may be smokeless cartridges. They might even (after the takeover of Peters by Remington in the '30's) be semi-smokeless cartridges.

Some of the older ammunition was loaded to a level safe for the weakest firearm chambered for the cartridge (as is most ammunition today). Some was not. If you have what you are SURE are the original boxes they may offer a clue. But note, collectors often cherry pick boxes and repackage older ammunition.

Liability laws were (for better or worse) not what they are today.

It's your call.

Bob

 

[Lotahp1]

Wekk for now it will just be a looker. Although I would like to shoot it sometime as I know my Granddad woukd have gotten a kick out of it. Keep the info coming still wonndering about gun it self.

Thanks
Kris

 

[Stingray]

Can you post some pictures?

-S

 

[Lotahp1]

Anymore info on this one? I did look at it again and its an officers model with the checkered grips