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Discussion in 'NFA & Class III Discussion' started by shooterdave, Jun 26, 2009.
OK, I believe you; thank you. But what if the "rightful heir" cannot legally possess one? What then?
The same thing that would happen in your trust if one of the trustees could not legally possess an NFA item, it would have to go to another heir.
A flesh-and-blood person has rights that a trust or corporation does not have.
A trust or corp is a good way to get your NFA on if you can't get the signoff, but if you can I would just transfer it to yourself. Heirs are handled automatically or by will.
Trustees do not "possess" anything except for the benefit of the trust beneficiary unless they are also the grantor (or trustor) of the trust.
Thanks for the clarification, but I think you know what I was saying. Having a trust does not allow a prohibited person to have actual physical possesion of an NFA item, so it would not matter if the NFA item were owned by a trust or individual.
This is what I forsee as the problem with trusts. Folks are making up trusts to posses NFA items and sooner or later a prohibited person is going to be added to one, use the NFA item in a crime and cause an entire mess for those folks who use trusts. There is nothing to prevent ATF from requiring all persons listed in the trusts to have prints, photos and CLEO signoff and then the only value of a trust will be gone. As vendictive as they can be, I would not even put it past them to make this retroactive to existing trusts. I am sure someone will come along and say that they can't do that, but I put nothing past them. YMMV
Right, but a form 4 is used weather it is an individual or trust/corp transfer. You said you prefer a form 4. I guess I'm not following you.
I know what you were trying to say, I think you just had the 'trustee" term used incorrectly. A trustee role is not involved in ownership.
Obviously the grantor would still have to be legally able to possess the NFA item in the first place. Same goes for the beneficiary if the grantor were to die. No different than if an individual owner were to possess and then die (except for probate). Everyone would still have to be legal to own/possess. Therefore, I would expect that the trust's "trustee" had damn well make sure the beneficiary is legally permitted to receive the item prior to physically transfering to that beneficiary, and, I would also expect that the transfer would still have to be processed through the BATFE. Thus, I would suspect the chances of a prohibited person obtaining an NFA item are no better or worse with a trust.
Trusts fall under contract law and not probate law or inheritance, so heirs have little to do with eventual ownership. So it would seem best to have more than one beneficiary named in the event the first beneficiary was deceased as well.
That makes even more sense. Thanks for the info. I have always used individual transfers so I am unaware of the trust terms.
Yeah, when the grantor dies isn't the trust dissolved and the property goes to the successor or does the successor become the grantor? I think the first option and on a tax free form 5.
Trust property is transferred by the trustee or successor trustee to the beneficiary(s) according to the written instructions of the trustor that created the trust. Original trust goes away.