Warrantless search - Rogers County

[WoodsCraft]

Every law is Constitutional.... until ruled as unconstitutional by a court of law, not a group of individuals.

Actually that's not how it works they can make an interpretation that the law is unconstitutional but Congress must repeal or modify the law. A judicial ruling in and of itself does not nullify the law , rather it is NOT supposed to do so . This is where Congress vacated their legislative responsibility to the judiciary .


A good example of such occurred during the Civil War with Lincoln and the SCOTUS. Lincoln won that tit for tat by the way. He did in the process clearly prove what the separation of powers were .

Everyone tends to overlook seperation of powers in the Constitution with Congress having ceded much power to Presidents in their willingness to overlook Presidential abuse of Executive Orders and to the Judiciary in allowing Judges to set precedent make legislation in a defacto manner .


And for what it is worth I am not a fan of Lincoln as he did irreparable harm to the constitution . He acknowledged as much himself in the damage he did to the fabric of our rights.

 

[tweetr]

Every law is Constitutional.... until ruled as unconstitutional by a court of law, not a group of individuals.

That fundamentally misstates the matter. Every law is subordinate to the U.S. Constitution irrespective of Judicial review. Judicial review arises from an objection to the subordinate law.

 

[DavidMcmillan]

That is an educational way of saying what I said. A law is a law until it is made not a law, by government. It is still a law no matter how much beaching & moaning is done on the internet.

 

[WoodsCraft]

A judicial ruling does not make it a law and in that statement you are wrong.

 

[Raido Free America]

Is anyone familiar with the Rogers County Sheriff's department?

My 20-year-old son was pulled over this morning for a "tail light" by three SUVs from the Rogers County Sheriff's Office, was told they "smelled weed", handcuffed him, his car was torn apart and searched by the K9 that was already there. They told him the dog alerted on his car. Couldn't find anything, but his trunk smells strongly of weed, and if he would just "tell them where it is" they would drop all charges.

This is all utter nonsense. He has never touched the stuff, never had any in his car, doesn't smoke, drink, chew, or anything. He really is a nice guy. They obviously had a vehicle description that matched his Corolla, because they were already loaded for bear. I guarantee any mention of an alert by a dog or by a person "smelling weed" is a complete fabrication.

The problem is the warrantless search without any advisement of rights and without any remote probable cause. Not to mention placing my son's very life in danger without cause! Fortunately he is a very nice guy, did not get belligerent in any way, did not resist in any way. But you can see the problem if he had lost his temper.

Is anyone familiar with Rogers County? (We live in Washington County and are not familiar with Rogers.) I need to know who to talk to, where to file a complaint, and so on.

Thanks.

I know many police officers, most are good people doing a very dangerous thankless job, that must be done, if we have a safe society to live in, raise our kids! That being said, I also know police officers that should never be allowed to have POWER over others! BTK was a wanabe cop, remember? Thankfully, the vest majority of these psychos are caught during the screening process! It's important that we the people report inappropriate behavior, and abuse of power, from police officers, and we have processes in place to check these allegations out, and remove abuisers, that slipped through the screening process! Our justice system is far from perfect, but by far the best one I know of!

 

[WoodsCraft]

I know many police officers, most are good people doing a very dangerous thankless job, that must be done, if we have a safe society to live in, raise our kids! That being said, I also know police officers that should never be allowed to have POWER over others! BTK was a wanabe cop, remember? Thankfully, the vest majority of these psychos are caught during the screening process! It's important that we the people report inappropriate behavior, and abuse of power, from police officers, and we have processes in place to check these allegations out, and remove abuisers, that slipped through the screening process! Our justice system is far from perfect, but by far the best one I know of!

I do not totally disagree but I also prefer that government at all levels be bound tightly by the chains of the Constitution to paraphrase Jefferson .


Liberty is a dangerous thing but I would rather be free and live with the element of danger than be a serf in constant worry of how a government official might decide to interpret something in the pursuit of their duties and yes as I have said before in other threads I am very much a old school crime and punishment sort of person.

 

[Roadking Larry]

Every law is Constitutional.... until ruled as unconstitutional by a court of law, not a group of individuals

I take issue with your statement.
We have a very complicated and I fear hopelessly broken system.
While a law may well have passed through the legislative process and put have been placed into effect that does not mean it is "constitutional". We see examples of that every day with the ever increasingly draconian gun control that keeps getting passed We know those laws are unconstitutional but we have to wait through a tedious, time consuming and expensive judicial process to make a formal ruling to that effect.

If the state of Utah passed and implemented a law that stated that Catholics could not hold elected office in the state of Utah would that be "constitutional"? Of course not and it would not stand judicial scrutiny. but it would still be "the law" until such time as it was struck down by judicial review.

Laws that are repugnant to the constitution should be ignored by honest citizens but with full knowledge that such a stance can become expensive. That is a main reason we see so many oppressive laws on the books, too few people have the financial wherewithal to oppose them.

https://www.avoiceofliberty.us/2015/08/a-law-repugnant-to-constitution-is-void.html

 

[Virtuaguyver]

I live in Rogers County and only been here over a year and haven't run in with the law. BUUUUT.... I heard they were crooks. I mean straight up thugs with a badge. I don't know about the city cops though.

 

[tweetr]

In the interest of further understanding, let us put a finer point on the matter. LEOs, help me out here:

Let us assume for discussion that the Rogers County deputies respected the Fourth Amendment and applied for a warrant to search for marijuana on the following gounds:
1) The third brake light of his car is inoperative.
2) He looks "nervous".
(These are the only two points articulated by the Rogers County deputies before searching.)

Do you anticipate that any judge would issue a search warrant on these grounds?

 

[DavidMcmillan]

I take issue with your statement.
We have a very complicated and I fear hopelessly broken system.
While a law may well have passed through the legislative process and put have been placed into effect that does not mean it is "constitutional". We see examples of that every day with the ever increasingly draconian gun control that keeps getting passed We know those laws are unconstitutional but we have to wait through a tedious, time consuming and expensive judicial process to make a formal ruling to that effect.

If the state of Utah passed and implemented a law that stated that Catholics could not hold elected office in the state of Utah would that be "constitutional"? Of course not and it would not stand judicial scrutiny. but it would still be "the law" until such time as it was struck down by judicial review.

Laws that are repugnant to the constitution should be ignored by honest citizens but with full knowledge that such a stance can become expensive. That is a main reason we see so many oppressive laws on the books, too few people have the financial wherewithal to oppose them.

https://www.avoiceofliberty.us/2015/08/a-law-repugnant-to-constitution-is-void.html

I think we have gotten far off the original thought of this thread. The officers were acting within the laws, as currently written. There may well be more to this story. Individuals deciding what laws are "repugnant" to the Constitutional seldom has a happy ending.