Wisconsin protest, a sign of things to come?

[_CY_]

forget about the hairbrain theories ... look at the hard cold facts.
what I'm getting at is the $billions in tax breaks oil companies currently enjoy.

how companies that have gross receipts in the trillion $$$ with net profits to match should be receiving HUGE tax breaks in the $$ billions.

put a minor portion of those funds to use efficiently and what we pay our cops, teachers and other public servants look like peanuts.

This hypothesis pops up once in a while, mostly when people are at a loss to understand why their own government will do this to them.
It has more to do with keeping the oil prices high and increasing profits, there is official proof to that.
Logically, it makes no sense to allow the country to go bankrupt to save our oil for later, considering that we have more oil than anybody else.

 

[Stephen Cue]

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/18/koch-brothers-behind-wisconsin-effort-to-kill-public-unions/

Koch Brothers Behind Wisconsin Effort To Kill Public Unions

Feb. 18 2011 - 6:45 pm | 151,492 views | 8 recommendations | 288 comments
By RICK UNGAR


As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here.

Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers.

What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.

Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado;

Via Mother Jones

If you are reluctant to believe that this is a coordinated attack, consider this-

This afternoon, Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin Public Workers Union, sent a message to the Governor’s office agreeing to the cuts to pension & welfare benefits sought by Walker in his bill. The governor’s response was “nothing doing.” He wants the whole kit and kaboodle – the end of the collective bargaining rights of the public unions.

As noted in my earlier post, this is, indeed, the first shot in the final battle to end unionism in America.

UPDATE: The Americans for Prosperity group, a Tea Party group that is a Koch Brothers front, has put up a website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The website attacks all collective bargaining – not just for public employees’ unions. Americans for Prosperity is also organizing a rally tomorrow in Wisconsin to support Gov. Walker.

Why are the Koch Brothers so interested in Wisconsin? They are a major business player in the state.

This from Think Progress:

Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant:

Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.

You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.

Please dont ad-hom. and tell me now that Forbes is biased towards unions.

and btw oh ye of little faith, how soon we forget....

The United States of America......IS A UNION!

Our contract is the Constitution! We elect Union representatives to go to the Union hall ( Washington) and fight for what we think we elected them for.

Yes some are bad and some are good, but the flip side is Fascism.

Now go on and tell me the US is not a Union of states banding together for the greater good of the nation.

How many of you anti-union people live out on a deserted parcel of land completely autonomous and away from society and do not partake in the use of public facilities?

......cricket........cricket.......cricket!

Face it, if you live in a society, your are UNION!

 

[HMFIC]

Interesting....

Most people on this forum want to get the gov out of their lives totally, not rely on it.
And the DoL is one of the gov entities they would like to see eliminated.

Why do we have a department of labor anyway?

I'm not saying that I want more government control and like it or not, the DOL does exist currently and will help you if you have wage law issues.

I was merely offerring Mr. Brown a way to possibly get his wife's pay issue addressed without coming out of pocket.

He could also hire one of the many competent attornies in Tulsa who might even take the case pro bono given his service as a police officer and simply fight it on the contract law point.

Just tryin' to help...

This thread is full of potential for doom though... people believe very strongly about this topic and aren't likely to be swayed much either way. I personally come from the attitude that I work hard, I am good at what I do and I don't let people walk all over me just because they happen to have been hired at a higher pay grade than me. I have excelled at every job I've ever held, I've been the employee, I've been the boss, I've fired people for lack of performance, I've given incredible raises based on merit and I've also quit a job because of 'bosses' who weren't playing fair. I've seen it all and I still maintain that FOR ME... I would prefer to play without a union who does nothing but create a lowest common denominator that I can far outachieve.

But then again, that's just my opinion, I may be wrong.

 

[Street Rat]

I think what is being displayed in Wisconsin is a very good reason why unions need to be reigned in. Isn't this the same teachers union that was demanding the state pay for their viagra? Give me a break. Don't forget the unions that are holding rallies for pay raises during one of the worst financial crisis in America. They make too much and they can't be fired, there are those that argue they can, but they can't because it's not worth the court costs. When a union can hold a state "hostage" they have too much power. IMO, if a private business wants to permately damage their business and let it become a union shop, that is their problem. When the government does the same thing, that's our problem. I have worked 2 union jobs (amost 3) and despised the union each time. Union, that is a funny word because I found out when it came down to it, it was all about "me".

 

[inactive]

My biggest beef with all of this is...

What did the people of Wisconsin expect when they voted Walker into office 3-4 months ago? I mean, he was backed by the Koch brothers, opposed by nearly all the unions during his candidacy, had the little (R) next to his name.

Seems these protests may have been more timely in late October.

 

[inactive]

Isn't this the same teachers union that was demanding the state pay for their viagra?

Meh. Union issues aside, libido and consortium play a major part in one's physical and psychological well-being. It's certainly reasonable to think that should be covered under a health insurance plan (public or private) if legitimately diagnosed.

 

[Nraman]

forget about the hairbrain theories ... look at the hard cold facts.
what I'm getting at is the $billions in tax breaks oil companies currently enjoy.

how companies that have gross receipts in the trillion $$$ with net profits to match should be receiving HUGE tax breaks in the $$ billions.

put a minor portion of those funds to use efficiently and what we pay our cops, teachers and other public servants look like peanuts.

I see the tax breaks oil and other companies get as a completely different issue. I am talking about oil production that the government in general and Obama more specifically are doing their best to prevent.

 

[_CY_]

totally understand.... to me why this dovetails nicely into this thread is boondoggles like this tax giveaway to some of the richest corporations in the world that's swimming in $$$ ... makes no sense at all. another for instance: Tax credits to drill where oil companies are going to drill anyways.

base issue of why our local and federal government is broke... all the $$$ billions given away to some of the richest entities that NO where shape or form deserves or needs them.

again... the problem is not what we pay to our police, teachers, etc... they deserve/earned every cent of what's coming to them.

it's why our government is BROKE ... canceling all the massive Tax $$ giveaways will solve any $$$ shortfalls and then some.

I see the tax breaks oil and other companies get as a completely different issue. I am talking about oil production that the government in general and Obama more specifically are doing their best to prevent.

 

[Billybob]

can't believe I read this entire thread

can't comment about Wi...
but in OK... IMHO ... ALL of you are barking up the wrong tree.

problems is not what we pay our teachers, fireman, policeman, etc.
it's the ridiculous waste of our TAX-PAYER resources is why the state is broke.

prime example: someone getting locked up for TEN years over selling 2-3 joints of Pot ($31). with NO prior.

not only do we the tax payer get to pay for her incarceration... we now get to pay to support her FOUR children. Note the mom is not a non-functioning crackhead... just plain DUMB! Turning a gainfully employed DUMB person into a convict over 2-3 joints of Pot is just plain crazy.

Can you say STUPID?
the DA and Judge should be FIRED!!!

-----------------

$31 of pot gives mom 10-year-prison, No prior

Ten years for selling 2-3 joints of pot is ridiculous!!!!
but not in Oklahoma, who locks up the most women in the World!

What a waste of resources ... looks like we the tax payers get to pay private prisons HUGE $$$$ to lock her up for TEN years.

http://www.okshooters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113139

Some would say the state being broke has a lot to do with the documented cases of fraud, some of which I've posted here. We have millions in fraud and nobody is held accountable or have to pay it back. The documentation is there, why will nobody in the system speak out, (social treason?).

As far as the issue of locking up people, check the records and find out what happens to those in the system who break the law, like the OKDHS worker named Sands,she was arrested for DUI, (with kids in car) that charge was dropped but less than a week later she was arrested for altering prescription amounts. There was also a worker from the same agency named Wheeler, she plead guilty to 5 drug felonies including having her own prescription pads, (stolen from Dr.'s office) she got 5 yrs. probation. Did they and others get a "deal" to keep quiet about other issues?

The system is robbing us blind through fraud, paying the salaries of criminals, and paying off the many lawsuits that have resulted in this area. We need to take a look at issues many don't want revealed, (guilt by association if not conspiracy) because it will effect their "place" and ability to live off the public.

Why is it that there is even the consideration of budget cuts for things considered essential, police, firefighters, teachers, etc., but those in the system will not deal with or remove the criminals, I guess those in the system consider them "essential".

 

[Michael Brown]

I knew I shouldnt have started reading this...But I Did.
Too much ignorance and bias.. Its not The Thing thats to Blame its the misuse.
If employers were fair you wouldnt need Unions....but its nice to have a contract ...kinda like the Constitution...a Set of Rules.
Ive worked Union for many years and let me tell you..if you dont/cant/wont put out...i.e....do your job ..you wont last long.
No life is not fair, but it sure is nice to have a set of Rules to go by.

Sonny Grant Local#124 Sheetmetal Workers

This.

Michael Brown