Zimmerman/Martin trial in FL

[inactive]

I've heard 3:00am, 10:00pm and now 7:00pm
What is the truth here. That should be a simple fact to find.

Facts are sometimes harder to find than opinions. I'll make this fact easy for us:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[inactive]

I dont see how this matters at all, with all due respect though:
If I confront you and initiate something by grabbing your arm, your ninja skilz turn out to be more than I have considered and your beat my ass to the ground. I start crying like a girl and I repeatedly concede defeat but you continue and move to more deadly tactics, bouncing my skull on the concrete, well, I'm going to shoot you if I can and I believe I am justified in doing so. Now up until the time you started play harlem globe trotters with my head, there was no for me to shoot you. You chose that action, not me. My bad for starting a non deadly confrontation, you bad for escalating it into one.

If all he did was grab his arm, then you'd have a point.

You are putting too many hypothetical assumptions. How do we know that Zimmerman simply grabbed his arm? For all we know, he may have drawn down on the kid, and the kid started swinging and didn't stop (I sure as hell wouldn't). If that is the scenario, he'd be right to escalate his force to the level he was.

So we can't say one way or the other at this point. One of them is innocent and one is guilty, we know that much. But we're not sure which one is the dead guy

 

[kennedy]

you dont think the media has been or is biased in the reporting of the Zimmerman/Martin case?

Clue me in on Martins violent background as opposed to Zimmermans violent background.

The media is biased. My point was that unless you are supporting Martin, then you are wrong and being led by the biased media. Everyone here is getting their info from the same place...2nd hand. None of us were there and none of us know what has happened. Interviews show that there were a lot of burglaries in the neighborhood and some home invasions. The witnessess of said crimes said that the suspects involved were young black males(these reports came from several neighbors that are black so don't think I am being racist here). This would be justification for me to watch, follow or call 911 if I saw a young black kid walking through this neighborhood at 10p.m. or 3 a.m(whichever it was). I'm not saying he had the right to approach and question him at all. The media is putting this case together, not the judicial system. As for the background of both parties, they both had less than reputable backgrounds. As for the MJ in his system, who cares. I've never heard of MJ making anyone violent(usually just the opposite). The drugs that were in Zimmermans system show that they only trigger anger or violent behavior in less than 5% of the users. So I don't believe the drugs had any influence on the actions of either party. Then entire issue has been blown up by what the media has falsified and reported to get ratings and by the people on both sides that are looking to get their name in the media. Too many things have been screwed up and mis-represented in the media to ever know what really happened on either side.

 

[Clay]

If all he did was grab his arm, then you'd have a point.

You are putting too many hypothetical assumptions. How do we know that Zimmerman simply grabbed his arm? For all we know, he may have drawn down on the kid, and the kid started swinging and didn't stop (I sure as hell wouldn't). If that is the scenario, he'd be right to escalate his force to the level he was.

So we can't say one way or the other at this point. One of them is innocent and one is guilty, we know that much. But we're not sure which one is the dead guy

True. Although pretty far fetched, your right.
Why would GZ draw down on the kid? Maybe he did, we may never know.

 

[farmerbyron]

Facts are sometimes harder to find that opinions. I'll make this fact easy for us:

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

[Broken External Image]

 

[inactive]

True. Although pretty far fetched, your right.
Why would GZ draw down on the kid? Maybe he did, we may never know.

Agreed. None of this makes a whole lot of sense, the further we step back and look at the broader view of it. But it's too easy to get caught up and lost in the minutia.

For the record (not that it matters) I'm of the opinion that what GZ did probably doesn't meet the definition of a crime and was in fact self defense. I'm also of the opinion he's vile, vigilante instigator and made poor decisions that led to the unfortunate death of someone who didn't deserve to die (at least that night for those reasons, since I didn't know the kid).

 

[Clay]

For the record (not that it matters) I'm of the opinion that what GZ did probably doesn't meet the definition of a crime and was in fact self defense. I'm also of the opinion he's vile, vigilante instigator and made poor decisions that led to the unfortunate death of someone who didn't deserve to die (at least that night for those reasons, since I didn't know the kid).

Thats pretty much how I see it too. We will see....

 

[Jefpainthorse]

If all he did was grab his arm, then you'd have a point.

You are putting too many hypothetical assumptions. How do we know that Zimmerman simply grabbed his arm? For all we know, he may have drawn down on the kid, and the kid started swinging and didn't stop (I sure as hell wouldn't). If that is the scenario, he'd be right to escalate his force to the level he was.

So we can't say one way or the other at this point. One of them is innocent and one is guilty, we know that much. But we're not sure which one is the dead guy

The powder burns, entry angle and othe science in the autopsy can spin some pretty good speculations too.

Remember... the package that's out there is States Evidence relesed for discovery. A good second year law student can have a feild day with what little Ive read so far... this is gonna depend on who's lawyer is the most convincing when he explains this evidence.

I think the Florida AG will huff this one worse than LA did in the OJ case...

 

[Lurker66]

and he will be pressing blood from a turnip. The only money to be had in this --- is a cut of the money coming on the TM trademark or the defense fund donations.

OJ Simpson lost his civil case... but he's too broke to pay off. The only folks who make out on this are Nancy Grace and her flock of psuedo media stars.

just a thought, but if GZ was acting as a neighborhood watch captain, then the neighborhood and members also bear responcibility for GZ actions. If this turns out to be the case, i hope TMs parents own the neighborhood.

If there was no chartered watch program, then GZ was acting solely as a citizen with no duty or reason to patrol or confront TM. If this is the case, GZ deserves whatever befalls him.

BTW it is my understanding (but im not certain) that Neighborhood watch organizations has a charter with guidelines that specifically state to call authorities, never confront suspects and Firearms are prohibited. If thats the case, poor George is screwed.

 

[gregorius]

I try to look at it from the kids point of view. I think I pretty much understand where GZ was coming from and why he was doing what he was doing. It was ill advised, but I think I at least understand it.

If it were me, and I was walking down my street minding my own business and some random car started to follow me from a distance you can be damn sure I would be ready to go if someone gets out of that car to confront me about anything. I think I am suspicious by nature, but once you start sweating someone and then try to confront or detain them with no authority to do so then there will probably be a fight, at least with a lot of dudes there would be. By the time GZ got out of the car the kid was probably on very high alert, and who could blame him? I would have decked the prick, too - and probably gotten shot for it. Damn. Its a messed up thing to even think about.

But then I remember that I am white, so this sort of thing is pretty unlikely to happen to me. For better or worse, prejudice comes into play here. If it was a white guy, somehow I doubt GZ would have been so quick to assume him a thief and be so ready and willing to get in his face.

I am in the same boat as all of us - I don't know what happened. It will be interesting to see it all play out, but no matter what I think it is pretty obvious that GZ is an overzealous cop wannabe. The two things that scare me the most are probably cop wannabes with something to prove and thug life wannabes with something to prove. I think both are probably more likely to shoot your ass than actual cops or gangstas.