State Question 779. Penny tax for teachers raises by the numbers

[crrcboatz]

You sir have hit the nail on the head, Consolidation. That is the key to trimming a major cost in education. 525 or so districts in a state of 4 million people is unconscionable . Until meaningful consolidation is put in place the cost of education in this state will be unduly high. That process will end the top heavy problem. Repetitive costs in this area is not necessary. For instance a federal programs coordinator can do the job or multiple districts just as they can for one. Food services, fed programs, special education, curriculum, personnel, purchasing, etc all these positions can be cut to one position. It may take some support personnel if the districts are very large but those positions need only 1 supervisor.

Consolidate and you will fix the major cost of education.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I'll vote no on the tax increase, but the notion that teachers are overpaid is crap. Teachers in Oklahoma are way underpaid for what they do. If you can read this, thank a teacher. I retired from working in Higher Ed here in Oklahoma a couple years ago. No way was I overpaid for my level of education and the level of responsibilities I had . But I'm not complaining; I did okay...it's the poor saps in the classrooms down at K-12 that are getting the short end of the stick here. One of the main problems IMO, is we have way too many School Districts in this State. Last I counted, we were up around 480, in a state with 77 counties. Fix that problem and suddenly plenty of money will be there. We don't need that many Superintendents, their staffs, etc. ONE per county, maybe be two for the big counties of Oklahoma and Tulsa. Nah, I'm not buying this crap that teachers are overpaid. Administrative staffs are.

This is not to bash teachers; I attribute most of what I know to teachers. Just keep in mind that teaching is the profession they chose. If the teachers are getting any short ends, it is due to the top-heavy situation that has been constructed here in Oklahoma as you made clear. I say not another penny until the number of school districts (and required staff) is brought down to one per county.

Woody

 

[Pokinfun]

You sir have hit the nail on the head, Consolidation. That is the key to trimming a major cost in education. 525 or so districts in a state of 4 million people is unconscionable . Until meaningful consolidation is put in place the cost of education in this state will be unduly high. That process will end the top heavy problem. Repetitive costs in this area is not necessary. For instance a federal programs coordinator can do the job or multiple districts just as they can for one. Food services, fed programs, special education, curriculum, personnel, purchasing, etc all these positions can be cut to one position. It may take some support personnel if the districts are very large but those positions need only 1 supervisor.

Consolidate and you will fix the major cost of education.

I would agree but, most people do not even know the jobs you listed even exist.
As far as consolidation, the issue I see is busing and federal program mandates. some students could end up being bussed outside of their hometown because of the federal mandates.

 

[crrcboatz]

No one said it wasn't going to be painful. That said there really is no other choice. This state is light years behind others that had to go through this. However once it is accomplished education, and our children will be better for it. Few things worthwhile to large masses is NOT painful. Desegregation is an example of that. The right thing to do is not always the easy thing to do.

 

[vvvvvvv]

You can take a hybrid consolidation approach and still mostly reach the same goal of rebalancing student, teacher, support, and administrative spending to be more inline with national averages (support is currently way out of whack - much more so than administration).

Keep the current districts with their school boards and superintendents, but create shared support districts that use CareerTech district boundaries as their guide. All schools within that shared support district will share support departments such as IT, accounting, administrative assistance, etc.

I did the math on a Facebook comment thread a year and a half ago, but I've been having trouble locating it. The short version is that by simply rebalancing current spending allocations to be similar to national averages, Oklahoma could raise starting teacher salaries to ~$50K/yr (matching the national average of $56K when normalized to cost of living) and still have over $800 in funding per student left.

Yeah, there would be a lot of support jobs lost. So what? If a position isn't necessary, it shouldn't be filled.

 

[Pokinfun]

No one said it wasn't going to be painful. That said there really is no other choice. This state is light years behind others that had to go through this. However once it is accomplished education, and our children will be better for it. Few things worthwhile to large masses is NOT painful. Desegregation is an example of that. The right thing to do is not always the easy thing to do.

I think desegregation is what has caused most of our issues. The state has this many districts to prevent desegregation.

 

[crrcboatz]

I respect your position but I simply don't agree with it. Small districts want their schools because it is literally the only thing they have left to hang onto. The school is the only place left they can identify with. Flight from these areas or non growth has left them with little or now business districts, few if any churches, no govt to speak of except the county, little to no law enforcement, VERY low taxes, but the school is kept to identify with as much as it is to educate very small numbers of students. Much of this state is rural, face it. To me if a district wants to keep its school those people should pay for it. Don't take tax funds from other parts of the state intended to educate students and give it to those schools just because they cannot or WILL NOT accept their responsibility to pay for the operations if they don't want consolidation. Fund schools on strictly on a equal per pupil basis and see what happens to them.

 

[Pokinfun]

You can take a hybrid consolidation approach and still mostly reach the same goal of rebalancing student, teacher, support, and administrative spending to be more inline with national averages (support is currently way out of whack - much more so than administration).

Keep the current districts with their school boards and superintendents, but create shared support districts that use CareerTech district boundaries as their guide. All schools within that shared support district will share support departments such as IT, accounting, administrative assistance, etc.

I did the math on a Facebook comment thread a year and a half ago, but I've been having trouble locating it. The short version is that by simply rebalancing current spending allocations to be similar to national averages, Oklahoma could raise starting teacher salaries to ~$50K/yr (matching the national average of $56K when normalized to cost of living) and still have over $800 in funding per student left.

Yeah, there would be a lot of support jobs lost. So what? If a position isn't necessary, it shouldn't be filled.

I would agree that the state could handle most of the administration functions in the for the districts, which would reduce the cost . I can not figure out why we have curriculum experts, who are not really experts at anything, and are not part of the hiring, mentoring, or curriculum in individual schools. However, they make 70-80K a year. Also, we pay teachers extra for passing a national board certification, but their students test scores are low. How doe s a test prove they are better teachers? We also pay teachers extra for being department heads, but they do not really do anything either, other than have meetings to meet requirements for having teacher input into administrative decisions. As far as most of this goes, remove sports from the education system. If you want to improve a student's education, put an educator in front of them, not a coach (some coaches are great teachers, but most are not). Having said that, hire coaches as coaches not teachers. If they stop coaching, they should have to reapply to because a regular education teacher.

 

[KOPBET]

So what happens if one added penny doesn't amount to 615 million? Are the called out amounts guaranteed regardless? They've already given every teacher a $5000 raise. What if it is more? Where does that money go?

 

[crrcboatz]

Curriculum coordinators are there because of state and federal requirements that districts place on a district. These reports and monitoring are lengthy and detailed. In order to receive state and fed funding their guidelines and all that go with it must be adhered to. The public has NO idea how much paperwork goes into mandated guidelines. Also in some districts this position is piggybacked with other things. I was a federal and state programs coordinator and personnel director at one district. If a district misses its funding deadlines for a single year what the school board go nuts. Loosing a few hundred thousand will get you fired. As for national board certification it is one way to develop, keep and maintain better educated teachers particularly in small districts. The idea that it makes for better test scores, well to each his on on that one. Coaches, ah yes the local hero coach thing. That is all about LOCAL CONTROL. Districts make those decisions, not the state. Don't like whats going on there, blame your local school board. The state regulates those activities in order to create parity, stop cheating, promote sportsmanship, etc but hiring and firing, pay, responsibilities, hey set down with your board on that one. Oh but may I say get ready to hang onto your butt because most of this state lives and dies sports when it comes to local schools. At one time private schools gave a person relief from that but NO LONGER. Most of the private schools are A** deep in athletics as much as public schools. Sports is what the public identify with along with Vo Ag. Trust me on this one.