West Norman shooting yesterday; shooter was CLEET instructor

[Snattlerake]

Interesting read.

The statement of facts.

5-2024

TEXT

COMBINED AMENDED MOTION TO DISMISS DUE TO IMMUNITY FORM PROSECUTION AND MOTION TO QUASH/DISMISS Document Available (#1057678552) TIFF PDF

1057678552-20240214-145800-%20(1).pdf

 

[AKguy1985]

It’s only a textbook case of self defense if one ignores the fact that Kottka got out of his vehicle, in the middle of the road, to confront the deceased.

Nothing in his motion indicates the deceased entered, or attempted to enter, Kottka’s vehicle. That should be relevant…

Kenneth Gumm did the same thing years ago and Tulsa DA prosecuted him

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2007/06/12/was-shooting-in-self-defense/61769591007/

 

[retrieverman]

Kenneth Gumm did the same thing years ago and Tulsa DA prosecuted him

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2007/06/12/was-shooting-in-self-defense/61769591007/

Was Grumm an ex cop?!?

 

[scott024]

The stretch of road where this happened was a weird spot for road rage to occur. I know that has no bearing on anything but a quiet West Norman street does not seem like the sort of place I'd end up in an argument and eventual shooting.

That section of main street goes from 2 lanes to 1, and there are always people trying to get over from the turn only lane. The incident happened about 100 -200 yards past that spot. I live in the area. I have seen many close calls at that spot with people speeding like hell in the turn only lane to get over to the lane that keeps going straight.

 

[AKguy1985]

Was Grumm an ex cop?!?

Security guard I think

 

[wolfman1]

I get being frustrated with traffic.

I do NOT get being so affected by traffic that I would need to scream, yell, wave my arms around and shoot the finger at anyone in another car ... it's JUST traffic.

I especially will NEVER understand how ANYTHING between 2 strangers in separate vehicles can escalate to the level that the drivers actually feel the need to go to the trouble to pull over, get out of their car(s) and manage to do the "assault" thing. Just always looked like a really good way to spend time in jail to me.

Havent been to the east coast recently, eh. Them mofo's be cra cra. The worst I've seen in OKC is like 5% of DC anytime any day.

 

[SMS]

I don’t remember all the details. Did the dead guy actually put his hands on Kottka?

Edit to add I just went back and read the details, and depending on which eye witness you believe, the dead guy may or may not have touched Kottka.

The deceased may have struck Kottka. The court documents allude to as much, but again. Kottka was safely in his vehicle and got out to confront the deceased, who had gotten out of his own vehicle.

IMHO, this amounts to Kottka escalating an already bad situation and then using his gun to get himself out of a fistfight.

 

[TedKennedy]

The deceased may have struck Kottka. The court documents allude to as much, but again. Kottka was safely in his vehicle and got out to confront the deceased, who had gotten out of his own vehicle.

IMHO, this amounts to Kottka escalating an already bad situation and then using his gun to get himself out of a fistfight.

Well, there's that job-related ego thing...

 

[Shadowrider]

The deceased may have struck Kottka. The court documents allude to as much, but again. Kottka was safely in his vehicle and got out to confront the deceased, who had gotten out of his own vehicle.

IMHO, this amounts to Kottka escalating an already bad situation and then using his gun to get himself out of a fistfight.

It does sound like that for sure, but Kottka is/was 62 years old and was tussling with a much younger aggressor.

Like I said earlier, this could get real interesting on that if Kottka's lawyer takes it that direction. I don't like his chances with the jury in that county though...

 

[SMS]

It does sound like that for sure, but Kottka is/was 62 years old and was tussling with a much younger aggressor.

Like I said earlier, this could get real interesting on that if Kottka's lawyer takes it that direction. I don't like his chances with the jury in that county though...

It appears that the only reason he was tussling with anyone is because he apparently got out of his car and engaged in a confrontation with someone younger and bigger than him. Using your gun to bail yourself out of a situation you willingly put yourself into isn’t self defense…it’s bruised ego and bad decision making.