West Norman shooting yesterday; shooter was CLEET instructor

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Shadowrider

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It appears that the only reason he was tussling with anyone is because he apparently got out of his car and engaged in a confrontation with someone younger and bigger than him. Using your gun to bail yourself out of a situation you willingly put yourself into isn’t self defense…it’s bruised ego and bad decision making.
He willingly got violently confronted in a road rage incident? Stand your ground means nothing I guess.

Regardless, the DA has a hard row to hoe proving Murder 1.
 

GC7

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That stretch of road has lots of houses and apartments. Hard to believe there wouldn't be Ring cameras capturing activity.
 

SoonerP226

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The motion to dismiss had it the other way around, from the sounds of it.
That’s about the size of it.
I thought murder 1 had to be premeditated. :anyone:
Nope. There are a few situations laid out in the statutes; most require premeditation and/or malice, but part B doesn’t. All it requires is intent to kill. From 21 OK Stat § 21-701.7 (2014)

B. A person also commits the crime of murder in the first degree, regardless of malice, when that person or any other person takes the life of a human being during, or if the death of a human being results from, the commission or attempted commission of murder of another person, shooting or discharge of a firearm or crossbow with intent to kill, intentional discharge of a firearm or other deadly weapon into any dwelling or building as provided in Section 1289.17A of this title, forcible rape, robbery with a dangerous weapon, kidnapping, escape from lawful custody, eluding an officer, first degree burglary, first degree arson, unlawful distributing or dispensing of controlled dangerous substances or synthetic controlled substances, trafficking in illegal drugs, or manufacturing or attempting to manufacture a controlled dangerous substance.
 

Snattlerake

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In college, I took Criminal Law and Murder First Degree was:

1 The unlawful killing
2 of a human being
3 by the accused
4 with malice aforethought.

The accused has the burden of proof that the defensive force used was necessary and was legally justified to provide immunity to prosecution.

Self Defense

a person is justified in using deadly force in self-defense if that person reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary to protect himself/herself from imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

The state has the burden of proof to provide evidence of Malice aforethought that deliberate intent existed in the mind of the defendant to take a human life.

“Malice aforethought" means a deliberate intention to take away the life of a human being. As used in these instructions, “malice aforethought” does not mean hatred, spite or ill-will. The deliberate intent to take a human life must be formed before the act and must exist at the time a homicidal act is committed. No particular length of time is required for formation of this deliberate intent. The intent may have been formed instantly before commission of the act. (See Oklahoma Uniform Jury Instruction CR-4-62)
I think it will be reduced to Felony Murder which is regardless of malice.
 

SMS

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He willingly got violently confronted in a road rage incident? Stand your ground means nothing I guess.

Regardless, the DA has a hard row to hoe proving Murder 1.
Stand your ground, in this case, would mean sitting tight in his vehicle.

Stand your ground doesn’t mean getting out of your vehicle, in the middle of the road to confront someone. By getting out of his vehicle, he escalated the situation and put himself in harms way.

The DA won’t be that hard pressed considering Kottka was armed and willingly injected himself into a confrontation when he didn’t have to.
 

SoonerP226

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In college, I took Criminal Law and Murder First Degree was:

1 The unlawful killing
2 of a human being
3 by the accused
4 with malice aforethought.

The accused has the burden of proof that the defensive force used was necessary and was legally justified to provide immunity to prosecution.

Self Defense

a person is justified in using deadly force in self-defense if that person reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary to protect himself/herself from imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

The state has the burden of proof to provide evidence of Malice aforethought that deliberate intent existed in the mind of the defendant to take a human life.

“Malice aforethought" means a deliberate intention to take away the life of a human being. As used in these instructions, “malice aforethought” does not mean hatred, spite or ill-will. The deliberate intent to take a human life must be formed before the act and must exist at the time a homicidal act is committed. No particular length of time is required for formation of this deliberate intent. The intent may have been formed instantly before commission of the act. (See Oklahoma Uniform Jury Instruction CR-4-62)
I think it will be reduced to Felony Murder which is regardless of malice.
Things have changed since we were using styli and clay tablets… Malice aforethought isn’t required, just shooting them with intent to kill can put you on the murder 1 trail. It’s right there in the Oklahoma statutes.
 

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