What do you think of the EPA

[Sanford]

But who will stop the Koch brothers?!?!!

The price of the EPA's bureaucracy is justified as long as they keep me from eating paint chips. In fact, the very reason we are in such dire environmental straights is because the EPA doesn't have enough power.

Declining population will fix that.

Dont mind me, Im just filling in for Lurker till he gets back.

LMBO @ filling in ... is that the punishment for eating paint chips?

 

[henschman]

Necessary Evil for sure. I prefer my water clean and stocked with fish. Instead of on Fire. Really hard to breath air full of pollutants, just ask the former residents of Pryor, OK. If you can find many still alive that is.

I used to date a girl from Pryor... I knew there was something off about her, but I couldn't ever figure out what.

As far as the EPA goes, they are further proof that this country's government is not a Republic, as many GOPers are so fond of saying, but is in fact more an Administrative State than anything. Those 435 suited sociopaths in the District of Mordor have so many plans for how they want to regulate and control our lives that they could not possibly codify them all themselves, so they delegate their authority to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats under the executive branch, who make the majority of what passes for law in this country. It's a nice little end-run around the notions of separation of powers and the "consent" of the governed (which was enough of a crock to begin with). No wonder polls show that the government does not have the consent of most voters. You don't GET to vote on the people who make most of the laws. The only real check on their power is the unelected, lifetime tenured federal judiciary. And with the sheer volume of regulations in this country, no court or legislature could begin to really put a meaningful check on the process... in the time it takes to get a bill or a court case through the system to invalidate a regulation, hundreds more have been written. The best anyone can hope for is that a few of the very most egregious abuses committed by agencies are stricken down each year.

 

[p238shooter]

We are the second biggest polluter as a nation and 8th biggest per capita. We are also the richest and most advanced in the world. No reason we should be in the top 10 for pollution in either catagory with what we are capable off.

Currious how those numbers are derived. How does that work out when you take in consideration the surface area of the United States to all the other countries? To me it stands to reason the US would put out a little more pollution than Portugal for example.

8th biggest per capita is a number to start with. What number is the US in producing products that are shipped world wide where they do not create any pollution to use them?

Countries that do not produce anything most likely will have little or no pollution.

Countries that primarily have agricultural industries like Brazil for example would most likely produce little pollution.

Now, are the numbers used that consider the US a polluter measured in the same parts per million or in many cases parts per billion. as maximum allowed pollution limits the same numbers that are used in other countries?

I would bet the US is scrutinized to find minor hot spots with small amounts of pollution 10,000 times greater than any other country in the world. What other country has as large of an EPA like agency looking for anything they can find?

This is similar to my example of the Tulsa area EPA measuring the highway hydrocarbon pollution with their monitor placed on a major thoroughfare half way between our two refineries that are only a few miles a part down wind. As the allowable levels are halved every few years, at some point in time they will be tripped. If one monitor in the city is tripped we are threatened with a new tax.

At some point in time the cow farts from the animals in my neighborhood are going to trip one of those monitors 30 miles away when the acceptable level gets reduced to .0000000000000001 parts/billion.

Now the other side of my opinion, 30 or so years ago, I was involved in providing and maintaining equipment that helped the EPA find pipes running direct from 13 industries along the Sand Springs Line just upstream of Tulsa, directly out into the Arkansas River bottom that were dumping raw sewage and major chemical waste directly into the river.

Yes, the efforts of the EPA were and still are absolutely needed for extreme violations like this, but you can not keep cutting all the limits in half, you eventually reach a non obtainable breaking point. This has happened with a large number of our industries. Many of them could not afford to comply with expenses for a “what if” situation that in many cases were very remote.

I for one do not want a big fine if I happen to spill a little gas filling my lawn mower, or have to pay a fine for the run off water from the road into my drainage ditch in front of my house.

To me, there needs to be a little common sense here. We have lowered our US acceptable limits to the breaking point of destruction of our economy and now we sign a world wide agreement that we will keep lowering them while China and other nations do not need to start lowering their limits for several years? We continue to brainwash everyone that any pollution the US makes will destroy the earth.

If we could just stop breathing, stop doing anything that produces CO2 we would eliminate all the food for the productive green plants of the world to convert to O2 and mankind alike. Seems to be the plan. Go figure.

 

[Profreedomokie]

They once were good but, now just another gov. agency that expanded it's power.

 

[Sanford]

Yes, the efforts of the EPA were and still are absolutely needed for extreme violations like this, but you can not keep cutting all the limits in half, you eventually reach a non obtainable breaking point. This has happened with a large number of our industries. Many of them could not afford to comply with expenses for a “what if” situation that in many cases were very remote.

That's pretty much what happened to the last lead producer in the US, isn't it?

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

The EPA is another example of a good idea gone bad. As a nation we needed to do something to slow the flow of pollution. Unfortunately, the EPA has morphed into a law writing monster with little oversight.

 

[Lurker66]

The EPA is another example of a good idea gone bad. As a nation we needed to do something to slow the flow of pollution. Unfortunately, the EPA has morphed into a law writing monster with little oversight.

I think the whole Revolution, Declaration and Constitution was a good idea that went bad. And there ain't no fixing it this late in the game. I ain't about to revolt and let the far left or far right try to take control either.

 

[Sanford]

The EPA is another example of a good idea gone bad. As a nation we needed to do something to slow the flow of pollution. Unfortunately, the EPA has morphed into a law writing monster political tool with little nothing but partisan oversight.

Can't say FIFY since I agree with your original statement. Just think this fits too.

 

[Glocktogo]

To be honest, they're probably 80/20. 80% of them are trying to do the right thing, while the 20% who are unreasonable zealots make the entire agency look bad.

 

[dennishoddy]

To be honest, they're probably 80/20. 80% of them are trying to do the right thing, while the 20% who are unreasonable zealots make the entire agency look bad.

And those 20% are the ones in charge.