FBI switching to 9mm

[CHenry]

I couldn't read this entire circle jerk but I'll add to it.
Penetration is what I want above all. If I shoot a fat dude in the chest, I want to be able to hit his vitals as well as his spine. A 9mm isnt likely to do that. A 9mm will hit a rib and redirect. A .45 will not. a .45 is way more likely to penetrate to the spine (a 10 mm out performs them all). With that said, I carry both, .45 and 9mm depending on my mood and where I am going. A smaller package is a plus some days. I feel slightly disadvantaged with a 9mm because of obvious ballistic facts but the extra ammo makes up for that. I consider either one a fine choice. However, having to put more rounds in a bad guy also buys him more time to return fire. I'd still like to hit his spine from the front, through his winter coat and heavy shirt, with 1-2 shots (accuracy being on me, the bullet will do its job).
Anyone who considers the ballistics of a 9mm to be the same or even close to that of a .45, 10mm, .357mag...etc simply dont understand physics.

 

[twoguns?]

Ha thats why I carry 2 guns?...and one IS a 45 derringer...8)

If you have to shoot more than twice...its time to gooo....

 

[MoBoost]

A 9mm will hit a rib and redirect. A .45 will not.

Is that a fact?

I feel slightly disadvantaged with a 9mm because of obvious ballistic facts

Page 17 in search of obviously not-so-obvious ballistic facts ....

Anyone who considers the ballistics of a 9mm to be the same or even close to that of a .45, 10mm, .357mag...etc simply dont understand physics.

But if gelatin, barrier/gelatin, barrier/bone/gelatin, ballistic cadaver tests AND field data don't agree with your ballistics assumption - then what? Bad tests or bad understanding of physics? I mean do I have to take your "obvious" word for it - or should you provide some sort of explanation? Or is this is just common sense and common sense can't be taught?

 

[Sanford]

(note - for whatever it's worth - this was posted in 2006; images and videos no longer available)

25 yard penetration test on a Point Blank - Level II vest.

Weapons used:
16" AR - 55gr Wolf .223
11.5" AR - 55gr Wolf .223
1911 - 230gr Ball .45
G30 - Win T230 +P .45
G30 - 115gr +P 9mm

16" AR - cut it like butter, did not even slow down.

11.5" AR, 25 yd - cut it like butter, did not even slow down.

1911 - good to deep penetration, good mushroom, knocked vest off stand.

G30 .45 - deep penetration, good mushroom, knocked vest off stand.

G30 9mm - stopped round, little if any noticeable penetration, shook vest but did not move it after two shots.

 

[CHenry]

(note - for whatever it's worth - this was posted in 2006; images and videos no longer available)

25 yard penetration test on a Point Blank - Level II vest.

Weapons used:
16" AR - 55gr Wolf .223
11.5" AR - 55gr Wolf .223
1911 - 230gr Ball .45
G30 - Win T230 +P .45
G30 - 115gr +P 9mm

16" AR - cut it like butter, did not even slow down.

11.5" AR, 25 yd - cut it like butter, did not even slow down.

1911 - good to deep penetration, good mushroom, knocked vest off stand.

G30 .45 - deep penetration, good mushroom, knocked vest off stand.

G30 9mm - stopped round, little if any noticeable penetration, shook vest but did not move it after two shots.

You know Mo is gonna argue this because theres no link.
But your right nontheless.

 

[Coded-Dude]

"what caliber won't hurt my girly wrists and won't make me look fat in these jeans?"

 

[MoBoost]

G30 - Win T230 +P .45
G30 - 115gr +P 9mm

The heaviest 45 load vs the lightest 9

I guess they don't make 9mm FMJ or Ranger T variety for the test

 

[MoBoost]

This guy didn't have problem with "bouncing off" level II armor ...

 

[Sanford]

So, you are carrying 14+1 in your 227

I can carry 21+1 in my 92A1 which seems to be comparable size.

Which 92A1 comes stock with 21 round magazines? In any case...

So, I'll have 43 rounds of (131100) and you'll have 29 rounds of (166500)

I'll be carrying 5.64M "Units of Momentum" and you'll have 4.83M "Units of Momentum"

5.64M > 4.83M

Of course that math is only good if you're of the opinion that you can effectively fire 21 rounds in the time it takes someone else to fire 14, and assume that you'll both have the opportunity or need for a magazine change. I prefer to stick to the hard, numerically provable, scientifically repeatable facts uncolored by opinions or assumptions to make my choice - so did.

 

[MoBoost]

And these guys did have problems going through with any of the ammo: