Not at all! You decide that based on your values. Mine may be different from yoursSo if I don't meet your standard, keeping my firearms always under lock and key, I shouldn't be allowed to own them?
Not at all! You decide that based on your values. Mine may be different from yoursSo if I don't meet your standard, keeping my firearms always under lock and key, I shouldn't be allowed to own them?
You want us to validate YOUR values. Big pants on and kindly do that yourselfYou mean tools? Like... hammers, baseball bats, knives, etc.? Let us know what you find, and how those numbers affect our responsibility to keep our private possessions out of the hands of criminals.
Get back to me when you're ready to have a real, honest discussion about when a homeowner has taken enough steps to secure their tools from unauthorized use, okay? I mean, it's just common sense, right? How many steps?
You want us to validate YOUR values. Big pants on and kindly do that yourselfBeYou mean tools? Like... hammers, baseball bats, knives, etc.? Let us know what you find, and how those numbers affect our responsibility to keep our private possessions out of the hands of criminals.
Get back to me when you're ready to have a real, honest discussion about when a homeowner has taken enough steps to secure their tools from unauthorized use, okay? I mean, it's just common sense, right? How many steps?
serious if you want but sorry I’ll not play your game. Seriously maybe you should rethink whether you should own firearms if you continue to be frustrated because we are agreeing with your line of thought on gun ownershipWhat about your hammer/shovel/riding mower/etc.? Those are deadly, too.
What about your car??? I mean... if I keep my car unlocked, but don't leave anything in it, and someone steals it ("because it was left out and unlocked"), how much responsibility do I bear?
I'm freaking serious here. Be intellectually honest and stop making excuses, all of you. If you think someone "should" put things under lock and key, then you should be honest and up front enough to tell us when we've done enough to merit your approval and not be 'to blame' if someone robs us of our property. By allowing ourselves to be robbed of dangerous objects, then we're putting the public at risk, no?
How much blame do we carry. Be honest.
Just wondering when and where people have responsibility for their possessions or themselves for that fact. If a child shoots himself with a gun that wasn't secured. Child's fault? Its not a matter of how many layers of security its whats reasonable and prudent. Which was tossed out of this thread a long time ago.
@tRidiot In all these threads I have never seen anyone tell you what the standard for you is. That's for you to decide. Just like its for me to decide what I do in my home or vehicle with my possessions. I let my 11 year old handle guns I wouldn't dare let other people touch due to my personal experience and observations. If you want to leave your stuff out to get stolen. Your choice if someone gets shot with your gun you didn't want to secure and your okay with it. That's your prerogative. I ask you again if a kid kills himself with your gun. Is that the kids fault for playing with what they thought was a toy? Do you have no responsibility with guns only when it come to thieves? What about your son? His friends? Visitors to your home? You still have no responsibility?
So do you just give your patients any drug they ask for? Where do you draw the line? No pain killers? No Weed? But if they want 2% hydrocortisone well that's okay?
Alright. I totally get where @tRidiot is coming from. He is asking about negligence and liability. Not about wisdom or stupidity or ethics. He is also not asking what the current legal status is: he is asking your opinion individually what your standard of negligent liability is.
Those are two separate factors. Is it unwise/stupid/unethical as a gun owner to leave a loaded gun in an unlocked car? Yes. Is the owner liable and at fault to any degree for damages done should someone other than them take (steal) the gun? Different question.
I will answer the question.
In my opinion, there are still two aspects that are getting confused in this thread: liability/fault for the theft, and liability/fault for damages done with the item following the theft.
As for the theft, the owner bears no fault period. In my opinion there should be zero layers of protection required by an owner to secure their property before it is theft for someone else to take it. Regardless of value or danger.
Regarding the liability for damages, there is a lot more depth. First off, I would say it does depend on potential danger. For example, liquor and drugs. I am not required by law to secure them to some abstract level, but if I don’t, and a child should harm themselves or another with it, then there is negligent liability. I would value a firearm at a similar level. If I fail to secure a dangerous item sufficient that a typical child cannot access it, then I could bear liability.
Time and time again people have said if you don't take more precautions then you have contributed/are to blame/deserve no sympathy. I'm not sure what else you could mean other than applying those standards.@tRidiot In all these threads I have never seen anyone tell you what the standard for you is.
So do you just give your patients any drug they ask for? Where do you draw the line? No pain killers? No Weed? But if they want 2% hydrocortisone well that's okay?
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