911 was an inside job!

[Jupiter Fulminator]

My father was a structural engineer who worked for the American Bureau of Shipping (a USCG chartered non-profit) whose offices were in WTC-1. He was in NJ when the attacks occured. I remember him talking me through his understanding of what was a horrible but very understandable event - from an engineering perspective. The aircraft clearly did fly into the buidling no on really doubts that. The crashes/immediate explosions themselves were insignificant compared to the intense heat of the ensuing fires, fueled by jet fuel, which changed the structural/weight-bearing properties of the steel support structures. Under heat steel (and most other materials) lose or have their weight-bearing capability significantly altered. Then as the floors above the fire began to collapse downward they effectively became pile drivers smashing into subsequent floors, increasing in energy with each collapse. None of this is really hard to understand or requires a conspiracy.
Occams Razor should rule here and, if you are interested, Popular Mechanics also did a very through treatment debunking WTC conspiracy theories over a decade ago - look for it you may find it interesting.

Trying to argue with people who get their information directly from highly-placed sources within the Mossad or FSB--or even from some clown's internet blog---is usually futile. Good try, though.

 

[MadDogs]

My father was a structural engineer who worked for the American Bureau of Shipping (a USCG chartered non-profit) whose offices were in WTC-1. He was in NJ when the attacks occured. I remember him talking me through his understanding of what was a horrible but very understandable event - from an engineering perspective. The aircraft clearly did fly into the buidling no on really doubts that. The crashes/immediate explosions themselves were insignificant compared to the intense heat of the ensuing fires, fueled by jet fuel, which changed the structural/weight-bearing properties of the steel support structures. Under heat steel (and most other materials) lose or have their weight-bearing capability significantly altered. Then as the floors above the fire began to collapse downward they effectively became pile drivers smashing into subsequent floors, increasing in energy with each collapse. None of this is really hard to understand or requires a conspiracy.
Occams Razor should rule here and, if you are interested, Popular Mechanics also did a very through treatment debunking WTC conspiracy theories over a decade ago - look for it you may find it interesting.

Wait ... You mean George Bush and Dick Cheney didn't spend their weekends taking wheelbarrows of explosives into the Towers?

 

[dennishoddy]

Take a 20' section of railroad iron. Anchor both ends, build a fire in the middle, and see what happens to the structural integrity of that piece of high grade steel.
It will bend like you won't believe to thermal expansion.
In coal fired power plants, the vertical boiler will grow by over a foot from when it's cold vs when it gets to temperature. It's actually hung from the top to allow this to happen.
That gentlemen is why the towers went down.
Thermal expansion of the support beams caused the integrity of the towers to be compromised and collapse.

 

[MadDogs]

I wonder how many of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have Jesse Ventura dolls they call "action figures"?

 

[GlockPride]

My one big caveat that I keep going back and forth on is this: IF it wasn't an 'inside job' then why did we lose so many freedoms AND so quickly? Would the American people have stood for the 'Patriot Act' and other highly intrusive laws and spying if we had not been 'attacked'?

That's a HUGE sticking point for me, the taking advantage of Americans while they're scared and weak from terrorism. It just lends credence to me to the fact that it could have possibly been perpetrated by those in our own government.

 

[MadDogs]

My one big caveat that I keep going back and forth on is this: IF it wasn't an 'inside job' then why did we lose so many freedoms AND so quickly? Would the American people have stood for the 'Patriot Act' and other highly intrusive laws and spying if we had not been 'attacked'?

That's a HUGE sticking point for me, the taking advantage of Americans while they're scared and weak from terrorism. It just lends credence to me to the fact that it could have possibly been perpetrated by those in our own government.

For what end game? To get phone records that they already had?

Back to square one. Islamists have been on a jihad bender for almost 1,400 years. They have gone from camels and scimitars to 757s and AK47s. They want to kill infidels or anyone that disagrees with their religious mandate.

Given this, one could argue that the 9/11 conspiracy theorists are apologists for Islam.

 

[CHenry]

My father was a structural engineer who worked for the American Bureau of Shipping (a USCG chartered non-profit) whose offices were in WTC-1. He was in NJ when the attacks occured. I remember him talking me through his understanding of what was a horrible but very understandable event - from an engineering perspective. The aircraft clearly did fly into the buidling no on really doubts that. The crashes/immediate explosions themselves were insignificant compared to the intense heat of the ensuing fires, fueled by jet fuel, which changed the structural/weight-bearing properties of the steel support structures. Under heat steel (and most other materials) lose or have their weight-bearing capability significantly altered. Then as the floors above the fire began to collapse downward they effectively became pile drivers smashing into subsequent floors, increasing in energy with each collapse. None of this is really hard to understand or requires a conspiracy.
Occams Razor should rule here and, if you are interested, Popular Mechanics also did a very through treatment debunking WTC conspiracy theories over a decade ago - look for it you may find it interesting.

Jet fuel is diesel fuel basically...black smoke from a diesel fire occures from incomplete burn do to insuficient air thus a cool burn. Ever wonder why diesel trucks have turbos? Charge are is needed to get a diesel fire anywhere over 300* Those fires were not anywhere near a temp that would weaken the steel beams. An engineer might not know that but a diesel mechanic (me) does.

 

[CHenry]

Take a 20' section of railroad iron. Anchor both ends, build a fire in the middle, and see what happens to the structural integrity of that piece of high grade steel.
It will bend like you won't believe to thermal expansion.
In coal fired power plants, the vertical boiler will grow by over a foot from when it's cold vs when it gets to temperature. It's actually hung from the top to allow this to happen.
That gentlemen is why the towers went down.
Thermal expansion of the support beams caused the integrity of the towers to be compromised and collapse.

Jet fuel is diesel fuel basically...black smoke from a diesel fire occures from incomplete burn do to insuficient air thus a cool burn. Ever wonder why diesel trucks have turbos? Charge are is needed to get a diesel fire anywhere over 300* Those fires were not anywhere near a temp that would weaken the steel beams. An engineer might not know that but a diesel mechanic (me) does.

here...

 

[GlockPride]

For what end game? To get phone records that they already had?

Back to square one. Islamists have been on a jihad bender for almost 1,400 years. They have gone from camels and scimitars to 757s and AK47s. They want to kill infidels or anyone that disagrees with their religious mandate.

Given this, one could argue that the 9/11 conspiracy theorists are apologists for Islam.

I agree the jihadis want to kill us. But I missed the part where you logically tie 'conspiracy theorists' into apologists.

What about the House of Saud and it's close ties to our power centers in D.C.? What about the recently released (formerly denied release) 28 pages of documents indicating Saudi involvement and how those directly tie to the Clinton's top advisor?

And it was more than cell phone records. Do some searching. It was no warrant meta data collection, FISA courts, financial procedural changes, increased passport requirements and much, much more.

 

[mugsy]

CHenry what I can research says that Jet-A actually burns at 800-1500 (nominally 1000) not 300 which, while insufficient to melt steel, is hot enough to weaken steel significantly. I think that is the the key issue - also the NIST report did say that there were pockets of combustion (presumably locally contained areas) reaching up to 1800 - again not enough to melt steel but enough to weaken it. I am not a material scientist but the reports I can find say that steel heated from 1000 to 1800 can lose 50-90 of its structural inegrity. If that is true then the collapse without placed charges does seem very reasonable.