General Ergonomics and Quality of Modern Handguns

[Danny]

I've had four different revolvers in my lifetime.

Colt Python
Colt Diamondback
S&W model 66
Ruger Security Six

And, several semi-autos..

S&W Model 59
a couple of the Smiths based on the 59 but newer generations (can't remember model numbers.
Sig P220
HK USP45
EAA Witness
Glock 23
and I'm sure a couple others that I can't remember at the moment.

NONE of them pointed, or shot, like my Kimber Pro Elite. And, I have to say I've shot a few 1911s other than my Kimber, and I'd pick a 1911 every time over any other type of handgun. It just naturally points for me, and every one I've shot was very accurate and functioned flawlessly.

 

[NikatKimber]

Well I'm glad you didn't mention my BHP, cause thats all you would have been talking about!

If I listed all the guns I've ever shot in this... well, it'd be a heck of a lot longer list!

It was a sweet shooting gun, but unfortunately those 50 rounds or so are the only ones I've put through a BHP

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Browning Hi-Powers and clones feel reeeeeeeal good in my hands, as does the similar Sig 225. As does a 1911.

Having said that, I *will* be back later to duly bash the G-pistols as best I can! :p :p Gimme a few days.

 

[Jeff Freeman]

Just another view from an avid handgunner.

Glocks-

The Austrian gun that just wont quit.

After owning & shooting 10 Glocks I have settled on the 9mm variants. The Glock 17 in my opinion is the quintessential full-sized duty auto. It is lightweight, accurate, has a high-capacity, and there is a wealth of aftermarket accessories. One underrated quality of the Glock pistols is the readily available factory magazines that actually work. It has very few parts, and little to go wrong in terms of disassembly, and field stripping, with most springs being captured. I think the grip-angle on any handgun is an aquired taste, but the Glocks naturally sit low in my hand and I feel like I have total control of the gun. I prefer the Glock trigger system over other polymer guns only due to the reset. The Glock has a very distinct let-off, and I find it much easier to shoot over other double-actions (H&K, Sig) due to the fact that the trigger pull is the same every single time.

My personal input to various (but not all) Glocks:

Glock 17 (9mm): The Original. Rugged. Balanced. Competitively Priced. The only limitations to this gun is the cartridge. Most people packing a large-pistol want a bigger round, which is understandable. The G17 like it or not, is the measuring stick for other modern autos.

Glock 19 (9mm): Might be the best all-around pistol on the market for the money. 15+1 in a diminutive package. It can be an ears-back duty weapon, or a serious concealed carry rig. This thing is a true switch-hitter. Some of the gunniest people I know pack the 19 most of the time. It is not the best pick for a person with large hands.

Glock 20 (10mm): This gun is probably the most under-rated trail gun of all time. Rarely mentioned for this role, it posses all of the rugged qualities that the Glock system provides, and holds an un-holy amount of 10mm horsepower. 15+1 on tap, and with the right loads it can pace the .41 Magnum. Hard to beat. The major downside is the size of the grip, the 10mm/.45 ACP Glocks are massive, and even in the short frame configuration this is a huge grip. Many have compared it to grabbing a coke-can, didn't bother me much though.

Glock 21 (.45ACP): This is a gun that I wanted to love from the very start. I baught a 21 and was completely head over heels for it. At face value, for a Glock guy it seemed like the way to go. 13+1, suprisingly accurate & boringly reliable I was hooked... for awhile. I started having trouble about the 300+ round count. I broke the slide-lock, but curiously it was in a tap-rack, not by actually using it. The tip of my guide-rod broke off, but as a testament of reliability it kept on humming. The safety-notch on the trigger shot itself loose by 500, and by then I had my fill. It was always too big, but I loved it anyway... but after doing some research I found that some 21s (not all) were having issues. I decided it was time to turn loose of the big brute, and went back to my 17 for full-size duties. I still admire the 21, and still wish I had gorilla-mitts for which to shoot it.

Glock 22 (.40 S&W): I'm not a .40 guy, but I owned a 22 for awhile so i'll slap some input down. I like the 22, I really do. I just don't like the .40S&W. This gun has turned out to be Glock's most problematic model, but curiously it's most successful. My 22 out of the box was true to form, ran like a top. I just had to do some serious ammo purchasing to find out what it liked to shoot. The main problem I have with this gun is it seems like they took a G17, drilled a bigger hole in the end and shipped it. The .40 batters any gun it is chambered in, and plastic guide rods snapped, and there was the famed "weapon-light" malfunctions that occured due to PD's over-tightening screws on the dust-cover and bent the frame permanently or momentarily causing the gun to choke. I never had a problem with mine, but I did have a problem with the cartridge (more felt recoil than a .45ACP, less stopping power), but i definetly understand the concept. The G22 is the most widely used Law Enforcement pistol in the country still to this day. They can't all have it wrong, I however can do without.
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Just a few thoughts, I could go on and on, and honestly anyone who is not interested in Glocks probably scrolled down long ago. This probably sounds like a Glock sermon delivered by Right Reverend Freeman, but I can't help it. That being said,

I love HK's. They are beautiful, robust, & nearly perfectly machined. They are as reliable, a their .45's are take the cake for polymer autos. The USP has been reliable and accurate for years. Once you master the magazine-release you will be off and running. The HK45 is a hot-rod, and it was designed by Ken Hackathorn & Larry Vickers, nuff' said.

The Sig-Sauer guns are exceptional, the 226/229 is standard issue for Navy SEALs, U.S. & Air Marshals, Oklahoma Highway Patrol, & many other hot to trot agencies. They solve the "polymer hatred" thing by have steel frames. The P220 is extremely accurate as a rule, and they are " to hell & back reliable." Sig seems to come up with some really neat packages as well, the "Blackwater", "Gadsden", & "Elite Dark" name a few. All of that brass using the Sig is hard to argue with.

The Springfield XDm is a great package, they hold alot of rounds & come standard with a match-grade barrel and a litany of accessories. I recently shot the XDm .45 and was very impressed, they beat Glock in ergonomics, and everyone else in price, and I can see one in my future very, very soon.

The 1911 is still, and always will be a masterpiece. No pistol is easier to shoot well, all the while throwing out the world-renowned fight-stopping .45 No pistol collection is complete without one. They are under-rated in terms of reliability, and give the end-user that warm and fuzzy feeling inside due to the blued steel & wood, and all-around American Badassness. The remarkable thing about this gun is that it came out so freaking long ago, and it is still used many of America's most elite fighting men ( MARSOC, LAPD, Texas Rangers... etc.) This would be the equivalent of the Ford Model T still being one of the most relevant cars on the road. Incredible. Their only downfall is the cost of a good one, and that parts simply do not "drop-in" and involve fitting. I have hit a dead-end with the 1911 due to the fact that I have Terry Tussey taste on a Taco Bell diet. ( 21 & in college)

All of these guns are great, but I continually find myself reaching for the little-black box holding the familiar "Austrian Atrocity". They do everything that other guns twice their price do, and sometimes better. As an end-note I was talking to an ol' boy about shooting irons and such, and the topic turned to my Glock. The guy remarked something like " they just ain't got no guts man", I said " thats all good and well, because I just use it as insurance to keep mine in my body." Alot of people base their handgun choice on the way that they "feel" or "look". To each his own, but for the price & performance I believe beauty is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to the Glock, and if no-one baught em' that would be just alright too.... More for me.

Jeff

 

[257wby]

Jeff,
Great review, but the OHP standard issue is a P229. Just FYI

 

[Rod Snell]

Ergonomics of Glock stopped me from ever buying one. Why?
Having shot and carried K-frame S&W revolvers for many years, and havig had to qualify on the 1911, I had a definite opinion about grip angles. So in the mid-80's when I first shot the Glock, the Luger grip angle was an immediate negative for me. If I concentrated on pushing down the front sight, I shot great groups; otherwise, I shot high. Still do with a Glock.

But I've found a gun that has the good features of the Glock and does not have the Luger grip angle: the S&W M&P.
For the many people that can switch between different grip angles without issue: congratulations. For those of us who revert to our earlier training and practice under pressure, the M&P is a welcome replacement for a Glock.

 

[ldp4570]

For me, and I've owned and tried lots of pistol/revolvers, the BHP, SIG P225, Walther P38/P4/P5, S&W 39 series, and original 1911A1's fit me like a glove. I'm one of those who doesn't like the grip angle of the Glock because I always have to work to keep the barrel down in an unnatural angle I don't care for. Revolvers I prefer K-frame S&W SB or RB.

 

[Jeff Freeman]

Good call 257WBY, I had heard that but forgot. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The Austrian gun that just wont quit being a piece of junk!

Fixed it for ya!


I KID, I KID!

 

[Jeff Freeman]

Haha... believe me man i've heard em' all. I work in a gunsmithing shop with a bunch of dyed in the wool 1911 men, I think i'm going to make a bathroom book full of Glock Insults and sell them at gun-shows. And take the money to buy another glock. ha