Heaven

[MaddSkillz]

During my crisis of faith, universal salvation was one of the last things I held onto before ditching it all and I have a few Martin Zender books as evidence of that.

Ultimately, I concluded that freewill is a myth - especially the kind the bible preaches. We're no more responsible for what we believe in than the clothes your great grand parents wore 100 years ago.

In the end though, I simply concluded that the biblical god is not worthy of my endorsement and most likely a product of man like all religions before it.

 

[onearmedman]

During my crisis of faith, universal salvation was one of the last things I held onto before ditching it all and I have a few Martin Zender books as evidence of that.

Ultimately, I concluded that freewill is a myth - especially the kind the bible preaches. We're no more responsible for what we believe in than the clothes your great grand parents wore 100 years ago.

In the end though, I simply concluded that the biblical god is not worthy of my endorsement and most likely a product of man like all religions before it.

You are right regarding freewill. This "present evil eon" sucks. That saying about Earth being bootcamp for eternity may be the real deal...

 

[onearmedman]

I really don't know what to expect for Heaven. Sometimes I imagine it might be like the movie "What Dreams May Come". Lacking much in the way of physical description, speculation is all we got. It's a big universe out there, so I trust more and worry less.

 

[MaddSkillz]

You are right regarding freewill. This "present evil eon" sucks. That saying about Earth being bootcamp for eternity may be the real deal...

Which brings me back to the biblical god not being worthy of my devotion. Why create evil? Nothing exists without his will to allow it. He even says in Isaiah 45:7 that he created evil (KLV). Why? With that comes every horrible thing you could imagine. Completely unnecessary. Questions you don't need to answer... I'm just thinking out loud really.

 

[Street Rat]

What about those never exposed to the message? Did they choose? What about infants, or the mentally infirm, incapable of understanding? Did they choose?

Those who were never exposed to the message still know the difference between right or wrong, read Romans chapter 2, their conscience bears. With infants, there comes an age of accountability, what is that age, I don't know, but Jewish tradition, if I remember correctly, 13 is when the son becomes a man. The mentally infirm, I guess you have me on that one, or it's not one I'm going to debate. We are accountable for our own salvation, we have more people in this world who look for excuses not to find God because it's the easier path, rather than to find God. If one will just look for God, He is not hard to find. When it all boils down, we all believe in something we cannot prove. He is just one step away.

 

[donner]

Those who were never exposed to the message still know the difference between right or wrong, read Romans chapter 2, their conscience bears. With infants, there comes an age of accountability, what is that age, I don't know, but Jewish tradition, if I remember correctly, 13 is when the son becomes a man. The mentally infirm, I guess you have me on that one, or it's not one I'm going to debate. We are accountable for our own salvation, we have more people in this world who look for excuses not to find God because it's the easier path, rather than to find God. If one will just look for God, He is not hard to find. When it all boils down, we all believe in something we cannot prove. He is just one step away.

With respect, many of those who have been exposed and rejected the idea of God still also know the difference between right or wrong.

 

[120 Acres]

Those who were never exposed to the message still know the difference between right or wrong, >snip

Bull sh*t.

The bible says slavery is ok, humanity decided this is not ok.
The bible says you should stone your children to death for disobedience, yeah, no, dont do that.
The bible says to stone your new wife is she is not a virgin. No thank you.
The bible says you cant get divorced from your spouse. I think not.
The bible says rape is not a sin, just give her father some money. Try again.
The bible says to cut off your wifes hand for touching a peen. Dont even try that one.

And for those that say, oh thats the old testament, Luke 16:17.

I know right from wrong. When I do something wrong, I feel bad. No god has anything to do with that.

 

[MaddSkillz]

Bull sh*t.

The bible says slavery is ok, humanity decided this is not ok.
The bible says you should stone your children to death for disobedience, yeah, no, dont do that.
The bible says to stone your new wife is she is not a virgin. No thank you.
The bible says you cant get divorced from your spouse. I think not.
The bible says rape is not a sin, just give her father some money. Try again.
The bible says to cut off your wifes hand for touching a peen. Dont even try that one.

And for those that say, oh thats the old testament, Luke 16:17.

I know right from wrong. When I do something wrong, I feel bad. No god has anything to do with that.

That's right. Old Testament or not, it was moral and God endorsed those actions. We know those things are brutal and unjust. As I said it reflects the thinking of the time, not a loving god because it's all an invention of man.

 

[WhiteyMacD]

I sure miss Iggy.

This is about the only thing that will garner an obligatory "Amen" from me.


In all honesty, the rest is just a bunch of assumption and conjecture about an entity, that if it does exist, would be so far unfathomable no book would ever be able to accurately and fully describe in modern parlance whether in or of its own word.

 

[Blinocac200sx]

A friend of mine introduced me to the theory that when Jesus said we will be like the angels when he was asked if there would be marriage in heaven, that that meant we will have sex freely. It's an interesting thought. We do have the record in Genesis of the angels coming down and having sex with humans, so, there may be something to it. Anywho. . . I'll just leave this here.