Just how good is the xbow

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RidgeHunter

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If they didn't need to reduce the harvest, and they didn't add more hunters, then, tell me, WHY did they institute equipment restrictions??

To keep the buck kill numbers where they wanted them without reducing hunter numbers. Like I said, like the study said, like Starry said and like the biologist said.

I said you don't seem to grasp the numbers, because either you don't or you are being intellectually dishonest.

-You are implying they should have increased hunter numbers after going to trad gear, when the goal was to reduce buck kill numbers without reducing hunter numbers. If they increased hunter numbers, not only would it offset the reduced buck kill numbers gained by the trad only rule...it would not be logistically possible to run very many more people through in a weekend.
-2 choices were put forth to achieve their goal, reduce hunter numbers or lower their success rate with equipment restrictions. They chose the latter. Whether it was to allow us a better chance at gaining access through higher odds at getting the draw, or to stick the middle finger in the face of all the folks that don't/can't/won't use a stickbow....that's your call I guess. I just don't think it was that nefarious myself, and I'm a cynic.

Just kidding, it was all done to get your proverbial goat.:igetit:


BTW, MCAAP harvest success data cannot be usefully compared to any states general harvest data because their are far too many variables. I agree x-bows won't make much of a difference in any states harvest, that's most often the case. MCAAP is a small, very controlled, highly managed place. Small variables make a big difference there, as the data has shown over the last few decades. Big difference between a managed herd on 45,000 acres and an entire state. Both in management goals (a states management goal is not the same as the goal at MCAAP) and the effect of reg changes.
 

Buzzgun

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One more time......if the real goal was to reduce buck harvest, as you claim, why not eliminate hunts during the rut or simply make half of the hunts doe only or, even better, require hunters to kill a doe first like they do at Salt Plains??

You can believe the nonsense about wanting to reduce buck harvest if you want to, but there are much easier ways to do it than to restrict everyone to traditional equipment.

Would allowing disabled hunters to hunt with a crossbow during the regular hunts at MXAAP have a significant impact on the total buck harvest?? I doubt it. The impact would be even smaller if you required ever hunter to take a doe before shooting a buck.
 

RidgeHunter

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You can believe the nonsense about wanting to reduce buck harvest if you want to

Otay Buhwheat. Thanks for the permission.

but there are much easier ways to do it than to restrict everyone to traditional equipment.

I agreed with that multiple times. Thing is, they didn't choose those methods did they? If if ands buts were candy and nuts, Buzzgun would have a Merry Christmas.

The could manage all kinds of ways. This is the way they choose to do it. It's really that simple. Not everybody is going to like it.

Would allowing disabled hunters to hunt with a crossbow during the regular hunts at......

We could play the what if game all day. What would it hurt to let a few kids hunt etc., etc. etc. Where does it end? They have a psyshically challenged crossbow hunt, and some trad bow hunts. Those are the choices. Why the complaining?

Would you show up to a muzzle loader controlled hunt and ask why they won't let you use a rifle?
Would you take a kid on a youth hunt and complain the weekend is not during the rut?

I just don't get it. These are the hunts we have. I don't like some of them. I've been to a couple controlled hunts I will never apply for again. But hey, it's not the end of the world. I'm not going to say "Hey, this hunt would have been better if we moved the date to the rut and changed it to a gun hunt."

Bottom line is you personally don't like their management strategy decisions at MCAAP. You post unsubstantiated suspicions of yours about why it is the way it is. I post a their explanation with data supporting it and you all but call me a fool for "believing that nonsense." There is no need to post up conspiracy theories. Just come out and say you don't like the way they run the hunts.

If I felt I was making a fool of myself I would have stopped posting when you challenged me. I didn't, so I'm not worried about it. I'm done with this issue though because you'll just ask more hypothetical questions until the sun implodes.

Thanks for the entertainment and typing practice though. No hard feelings!:D

I'm done in here until Dennis gets his numbers. Though I don't think they will mean much because of the date difference between the psychically challenged hunt and the trad hunts. You can't call a variable a constant.:zzz2:
 

dennishoddy

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I'm done in here until Dennis gets his numbers. Though I don't think they will mean much because of the date difference between the psychically challenged hunt and the trad hunts. You can't call a variable a constant.

Aw come on buddy....its all just a discussion anyway, and you want ME to bring in scientific evidence????:laughup:

The numbers were interesting and may have proved a few points of both of the litigants discussion points.

The biggest variable is the # of hunters in the physically challenged hunt.
I emailed Bill Starry, as I thought the hunt last season was short of disabled hunters and that was why he allowed 30 traditional hunters to join the hunt.
Not so. It was a managment thing, and he didn't go into detail, but said that was the first and last time that will happen.

So, the count is 130 for the physically challenged hunt. I do not have a breakdown of how many the trad hunters shot, vs the crossbow, so that is a variable, and will just group it into a single number and we will take it as it may.


This is the percentage of both bucks and does as a total.
Hunt #1 will always be the physically challenged hunt.

1st archery, 20% of the hunters killed a deer
2nd archery, 11.6% of the hunters killed a deer
3rd archery, 18.18% of the hunters killed a deer
4th archery, 13.08% of the hunters killed a deer
5th archery, 16.36% of the hunters killed a deer.
6th archery, 14.54% of the hunters killed a deer.


Now we have the percentage of hunters killing a buck
1st archery, 5.4% of the hunters killed a buck
2nd archery, 4% of the hunters killed a buck
3rd archery, 8.7% of the hunters killed a buck
4th archery, 7.3% of the hunters killed a buck
5th archery, 7.6% of the hunters killed a buck
6th archery, 6.5% of the hunters killed a buck.

Y'all can do your own math to figure out the doe kills....my fingers are tired:sorry4:
 

cvrx4

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I have gone to the disabled hunt last year for the first time with my crossbow.
I cannot pull a bow back because of a ruptured bicep tendon.
that is the restriction.

Most have had shoulder surgery, etc. 90% of the hunters were still independantly mobile, but cannot pull a bow back any more because of their health or injury.

Can't speak for anybody else, but took a ladder stand to get up on.
Just have to use the left arm for most of the lifting...

So, I stand by most of my original post.

Oh, by the way, those stats included 30 conventional bow hunters that had mistakenly clicked on the disabled hunt. They had XXX number of slots to fill, and were short of disabled hunters, so allowed these guys to go ahead and come...
Bill Starry, the resourse manager, gave them a pretty good tounge lashing for clicking on the wrong hunt.....Justifiable so.

I stand corrected. I didnt realize that disabled meant crossbow permit type situation. When I hear of a disabled hunt I usually think of the hunts put on to help people with Major disabilities i.e wheelchair, that type of thing.

I understood from your first post the sarcasm involved. My father uses a crossbow due to having his shoulder broken by a kick from a horse. I know the crossbow is a hot tpoic. The truth is we do not know exactly whats gonna happen. I really dont care either way. The reason being if I wanted to use one I can go buy one or just borrow my father's. I just thought it was interesting the black bear harvest.

One more thing. I think that the Mcaap should do whatever it wants. Does it suck that they only allow traditional equipment? Yeah, but if I want to hunt it bad enough I can go buy a recurve or longbow and practice to where I can hunt with one. Choices, they are what makes this country great.
 

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