Just how good is the xbow

[Buzzgun]

Otay Buhwheat. Thanks for the permission.



I agreed with that multiple times. Thing is, they didn't choose those methods did they? If if ands buts were candy and nuts, Buzzgun would have a Merry Christmas.

The could manage all kinds of ways. This is the way they choose to do it. It's really that simple. Not everybody is going to like it.



We could play the what if game all day. What would it hurt to let a few kids hunt etc., etc. etc. Where does it end? They have a psyshically challenged crossbow hunt, and some trad bow hunts. Those are the choices. Why the complaining?

Would you show up to a muzzle loader controlled hunt and ask why they won't let you use a rifle?
Would you take a kid on a youth hunt and complain the weekend is not during the rut?

I just don't get it. These are the hunts we have. I don't like some of them. I've been to a couple controlled hunts I will never apply for again. But hey, it's not the end of the world. I'm not going to say "Hey, this hunt would have been better if we moved the date to the rut and changed it to a gun hunt."

Bottom line is you personally don't like their management strategy decisions at MCAAP. You post unsubstantiated suspicions of yours about why it is the way it is. I post a their explanation with data supporting it and you all but call me a fool for "believing that nonsense." There is no need to post up conspiracy theories. Just come out and say you don't like the way they run the hunts.

If I felt I was making a fool of myself I would have stopped posting when you challenged me. I didn't, so I'm not worried about it. I'm done with this issue though because you'll just ask more hypothetical questions until the sun implodes.

Thanks for the entertainment and typing practice though. No hard feelings!

I'm done in here until Dennis gets his numbers. Though I don't think they will mean much because of the date difference between the psychically challenged hunt and the trad hunts. You can't call a variable a constant.

Please quit reading more into my posts than what is actually there. I really don't care how they run the hunts, I don't apply for that hunt. It's their "story" about the equipment restrictions that I don't like. I just wish they would stop pissing down our backs and telling us it's raining! If YOU want to believe the story, that's fine.

My question about how much impact allowing the disabled shooters to hunt along with the other folks who draw a tag was just that, a question, not a complaint. I personally doubt that it would make any significant difference, but it isn't my ball game.

If they came out tomorrow with a statement saying they are restricting equipment because the base commander, or Bill Starry or somebody else with enough stroke at the plant is a traditional shooter and has the power to make it so, I'd never say another word about it.

 

[RidgeHunter]

Yes. I am clearly the one reading too much into things.

If the ODWC would come out tomorrow and say rifle season is held around the Thanksgiving holiday because they don't love America and it's their way of showing it by making a hunting season conflict with an American holiday, I'd never say another word about it.

 

[Buzzgun]

Yes. I am clearly the one reading too much into things.

If the ODWC would come out tomorrow and say rifle season is held around the Thanksgiving holiday because they don't love America and it's their way of showing it by making a hunting season conflict with an American holiday, I'd never say another word about it.

I don't believe that very poor attempt at a analogy is even in the same galaxy, but keep trying if it trips your trigger.

 

[RidgeHunter]

I don't believe that very poor attempt at a analogy is even in the same galaxy, but keep trying if it trips your trigger.

I have just as much proof that anti-American beliefs are the reason rifle season is around Thanksgiving as you do that Starry is a liar with ulterior motives. (That's no proof, if you're not following me.)

It's in the same galaxy, and oh does it ever trip my trigger.

I think Dennis is going this year. Maybe he can ask Bill "Hey, that thing you said about letting as many hunters on base with a buck tag in their pocket as possible...I heard that's a lie on the internet and you really did it because you're selfish. What's the deal?"

 

[Buzzgun]

I have just as much proof that anti-American beliefs are the reason rifle season is around Thanksgiving as you do that Starry is a liar with ulterior motives. (That's no proof, if you're not following me.)

It's in the same galaxy, and oh does it ever trip my trigger.

I think Dennis is going this year. Maybe he can ask Bill "Hey, that thing you said about letting as many hunters on base with a buck tag in their pocket as possible...I heard that's a lie on the internet and you really did it because you're selfish. What's the deal?"

I have to admit, the "anti-American/ Thanksgiving/deer season" probably makes sense-----------to someone who gets off on Beavis and Butthead!


Two questions, please answer them honestly.

Do you have any PROOF that I am wrong??

Is it POSSIBLE that the base commander is/was a rabid traditionalist and made the change just because he wanted to??

 

[RidgeHunter]

Base commanders have nothing to do with why it's trad only. You're thinking of the Natural Resource Manager.

Do any PROOF that I am wrong??

You have no proof my rifle season/Thanksgiving theory isn't true, so it is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

And again, I already agreed with you that Starry is an admitted trad fan and that's part of why MAC is trad only. I also believe the him and the study when they say they truly want to run as many hunters through as possible. Maybe to get people a chance to hunt one of the most famous ans successful draw hunt programs in the nation? Maybe to encourage people to pick up a dying sport? Maybe to give blue collar guys a chance to hunt a trophy herd with a 2:1 doe/buck ratio?(If not for MCAAP, I probably never would have picked up a recurve, as with many people I know.) If he can do all that and maintain his management goals, that's his prerogative.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it nefarious.

If you're making claims about someone, you're the one who needs the proof, not the other way around.

 

[Buzzgun]

Base commanders have nothing to do with why it's trad only. You're thinking of the Natural Resource Manager.



You have no proof my rifle season/Thanksgiving theory isn't true, so it is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

And again, I already agreed with you that Starry is an admitted trad fan and that's part of why MAC is trad only. I also believe the him and the study when they say they truly want to run as many hunters through as possible. Maybe to get people a chance to hunt one of the most famous ans successful draw hunt programs in the nation? Maybe to encourage people to pick up a dying sport? Maybe to give blue collar guys a chance to hunt a trophy herd with a 2:1 doe/buck ratio?(If not for MCAAP, I probably never would have picked up a recurve, as with many people I know.) If he can do all that and maintain his management goals, that's his prerogative.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it nefarious.

If you're making claims about someone, you're the one who needs the proof, not the other way around.

You have no "proof" that you are right either, all you have is what Starry said about why equipment restrictions were imposed. And, you agree "that Starry is an admitted trad fan and that's part of why MAC is trad only". As "an admitted trad fan", what would you expect Starry to say?? Duh!

You do realize that the study you referenced is based on records from MCAAP and was done in 1996, 7 years after the equipment restrictions were imposed? There is no way this study had any influence on the decision to impose equipment restrictions.

You made the claim early on in this thread that:

They've done the studies (and used to allow compounds), compound success ratios would force them to drastically reduce hunter numbers.....It's to special a place to deny that many people the oppurtunity to hunt there. That's why it's stickbow only.

The study you referenced shows that hunter success rates dropped about 7% after equipment restrictions were imposed and you infer in the above statement that the continued use of compounds would have forced a reduction in hunter numbers due to over harvest. However, there was never any evidence offered that the pre equipment restriction harvest rate was unsustainable. The study also showed that during the study period, hunter numbers stayed about the same, so no additional hunting opportunities were gained through the restrictions.

Deer harvest figures for Oklahoma show that, for the last several years, hunters have killed about 20% of the estimated deer population, this doesn't count the deer killed by vehicles, poached or that die of natural causes, yet our deer population continues to grow. I think it is reasonable to believe that the percentage of deer killed by vehicles or poaching on MCAAP is much lower than the statewide average? Point being that the deer herd at MCAAP should be able to support a harvest higher than the current 10% average.

I believe it is also obvious that the buck harvest on MCAAP could have easily been reduced to desired levels by requiring hunters to kill a doe BEFORE taking a buck or by making some of the hunts doe only.

When i look at the facts:

1) During the study period, hunting opportunities at MCAAP stayed roughly the same pre and post equipment restriction.

2) success rate on MCAAP is roughly half of the statewide average and the state deer population is expanding, indicating to me that the herd should also be expanding at MCAAP.

3) the buck harvest could have easily been reduced through other methods that would have also increased doe harvest

4) you say Starry is a traditionalist

I simply can't buy the story that equipment restrictions were only imposed to reduce buck harvest and increase or sustain the number of hunters allowed to hunt the facility.

Bottom line, you say that part of the reason for the equipment restrictions is because Starry is an "admitted traditional fan" but that the biggest reason for the equipment restrictions is to reduce buck harvest.

I say the biggest reason for the equipment restrictions is because Starry, or someone higher up at MCAAP, is a traditionalist and wanted the restrictions, and that the reduction in buck harvest is simply a result of an overall reduction in hunter success.

As I stated before, I don't really care how they run the place, I don't apply for that hunt and couldn't use a compound even if they allowed it.

 

[RidgeHunter]

You do realize that the study you referenced is based on records from MCAAP and was done in 1996, 7 years after the equipment restrictions were imposed?

Uhhh....yeah?

How else to you expect them to make a comparison study between compound and trad harvests without, you know....having a trad harvest.

The other stuff you posted is not worth replying to because you are again trying to compare the management goals/statistics of the entire state to the management goals/statistics of a trophy managed 45,000 acre facility.

Are we done? Do you want me to tell you you won? I will if that's what you want. You won, I am wrong. I played my best though, and that's what counts, right coach?

 

[r00s7a]

I have to admit, the "anti-American/ Thanksgiving/deer season" probably makes sense-----------to someone who gets off on Beavis and Butthead

Why you gotta knock Beavis and Butthead... and Todd? Now you are taking it personal and losing your credibility...

 

[Buzzgun]

Uhhh....yeah?

How else to you expect them to make a comparison study between compound and trad harvests without, you know....having a trad harvest.

You seemed to be trying to use the study to justify the decision to restrict equipment, but the decision had been made 7 years before the study.


The other stuff you posted is not worth replying to because you are again trying to compare the management goals/statistics of the entire state to the management goals/statistics of a trophy managed 45,000 acre facility.

I think what I posted refutes the idea that the only reason for the equipment restrictions was to reduce buck harvest so that hunter numbers would not have to be reduced.


Are we done? Do you want me to tell you you won? I will if that's what you want. You won, I am wrong. I played my best though, and that's what counts, right coach?

Do you want to be done?? 'cause I can do this all day if you want!

Later