Motorcycle riders, use your helmets

[1shot(bob)]

Wasn't trying to say that you don't care for your son. I was using "care" in the definition sense of "Caution in avoiding harm or danger", not personal feelings. Sorry if it came across differently.

I can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that wearing a helmet will always protect a person and never do that person harm. That has been part of the age old arguement for wearing vs. not hasn't it? It's also true that you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that NOT wearing a helmet is safer. I believe that in most cases though, having the helmet is better. I'll make my own choices for myself but I'm not willing to play against the odds with my kids.

I'll say this... regardless of my own choices in life, I would hope to ensure my child lives to make it to the point that they are capable of taking everything I've taught them and making their own choices for themselves. I do believe that them wearing helmets will help to achieve that goal.

I didn't take it personal. Although, if I did use your definition of 'caring' I wouldn't let him play sports, ride a skateboard, bicycle, or leave the house. He broke more bones during football than riding motorcycles. He is now 30, serving in the Army, and riding sport bikes, by the way.

I know people that were saved by a helmet, and I know people that were saved because they didn't (I am one of those). It's an argument that will never be settled since there is no way to actually prove it one way or the other, statistical evidence be damned. We are all just playing the odds in everything we do. if you want to stack the odds in your favor, so be it. How you stack those odds is the question.

My own theory is that when riding a motorcycle, the only thing a helmet does is allow for an open casket funeral. Riding a motorcycle can be dangerous, and often is considering the other drivers on the road. It takes a certain chutzpah to ride a bike. Fear can not be in that equation. Confidence and a keen awareness of everything around you is important. Even the best rider, though, can be killed in an instant by someone else doing something really stupid. That is also another fact you have to realize. Or you can just ride oblivious to the dangers and still enjoy the day.

 

[1shot(bob)]

I dunno, riding without a brain bucket helps clear eejits out of the gene pool. Maybe it's a good thing.

Now this comment I take personal. Are you calling me an eejit? Are you hoping for me to be cleansed from the pool? Would that be a good thing in your opinion?

 

[Cinaet]

Now this comment I take personal. Are you calling me an eejit? Are you hoping for me to be cleansed from the pool? Would that be a good thing in your opinion?

On second thought that statement is admittedly a little over the top 1shot(bob). I revised it. No, I don't think you're an eejit and I hope you live a long, long life.

 

[HMFIC]

I didn't take it personal. Although, if I did use your definition of 'caring' I wouldn't let him play sports, ride a skateboard, bicycle, or leave the house. He broke more bones during football than riding motorcycles. He is now 30, serving in the Army, and riding sport bikes, by the way.

I know people that were saved by a helmet, and I know people that were saved because they didn't (I am one of those). It's an argument that will never be settled since there is no way to actually prove it one way or the other, statistical evidence be damned. We are all just playing the odds in everything we do. if you want to stack the odds in your favor, so be it. How you stack those odds is the question.

My own theory is that when riding a motorcycle, the only thing a helmet does is allow for an open casket funeral. Riding a motorcycle can be dangerous, and often is considering the other drivers on the road. It takes a certain chutzpah to ride a bike. Fear can not be in that equation. Confidence and a keen awareness of everything around you is important. Even the best rider, though, can be killed in an instant by someone else doing something really stupid. That is also another fact you have to realize. Or you can just ride oblivious to the dangers and still enjoy the day.

Not my definition, it's one of Webster's. Of course, there is a point of course as to how much you can or should try to protect your kids from harm or danger. I will encourage my son play football, and he'll use a helmet for that as well. I fully believe that you care just as much for your children as I do mine, it sounds like where we differ is our assessment of what is dangerous and to what extent.

... and that is where we are back to the issue at hand. What, if anything, is considered too dangerous to allow a child to do regardless of their parents opinion? Is there anything in your opinion that does?

 

[bashed1]

I rode for many years; gave it up and sold the bike after the umpteenth oncoming Tulsa driver looked me right in the eyes and still turned left right in front of me. And that was before the prevalence of cell phones - I couldn't imagine riding a motorcycle now and dealing with all the distracted drivers out there. Having ridden for years, I am very aware of motorcyclists out on the roads and always give them the right-of-way and lots of room. You current riders do us four-wheeler jockies a solid and always ride with your headlight on - makes a world of difference in seeing you, especially in low-light daytime conditions and against similar-colored asphalt.

 

[HMFIC]

I rode for many years; gave it up and sold the bike after the umpteenth oncoming Tulsa driver looked me right in the eyes and still turned left right in front of me. And that was before the prevalence of cell phones - I couldn't imagine riding a motorcycle now and dealing with all the distracted drivers out there. Having ridden for years, I am very aware of motorcyclists out on the roads and always give them the right-of-way and lots of room. You current riders do us four-wheeler jockies a solid and always ride with your headlight on - makes a world of difference in seeing you, especially in low-light daytime conditions and against similar-colored asphalt.

Number one method for motorcycle accidents is four-wheeled roadblocks turning in front of them.

My most harrowing experience of this type was on a 4 lane + a turn lane, new, full residential area road, early in the morning with good, clear light, NOBODY else on the road and me on a bright red Katana 600 with a bright red helmet. A 50's-ish woman pulled into the turn lane with her blinker on facing me as I approached. I was fully aware of her and expected her to turn left in front of me (just as I do ALL vehicles) AND SHE DID.

I had just barely enough time to grab a whole big handfull of front brake and in my rush to get stopped, also ended up locking the rear which started me slipping sideways. I guess she did see me at some point because she STOPPED right in the middle of the road, freaked out and evidently not knowing what to do. Out of some miracle, I was able to keep it from sliding out completely and under her car. I was pointed to the left in my slide and through some other luck or fate, ended up giving just enough throttle to pull out of the slide and back upright without highsiding too. This gave me just enough momentum to go forward the foot or so that was required to miss her car by inches. After, I pulled over to the side of the road and caught my heart and breath. She actually stayed stopped right where she was for a minute and then pulled away like nothing happened. It all happened of course in seconds and the bottom line is I just got really lucky and also lucky that I did have whatever instinct I needed at the time to pull it together.

I agree with Bob about riding requiring the chutzpah, confidence and awareness to be able to avoid dying. It's usually not a matter of IF you will wreck, it's a matter of WHEN and how badly. I've cruised across the country, raced up and down mountains, tooled around town, ridden as a daily driver and put on more miles than I can count. I've been fortunate enough to walk away from the wrecks that I have had with minimal scarring and no permanant damage other than one butt cheek that looks a little different than the other due to a semi crushing my seat around it (but THAT'S another story).

 

[Maverick7340]

I guess I am a 'full-on' libertarian. If it doesn't affect anybody but me (and my family) I believe the government has no say in it. My freedom should never impose on your freedom.

It DOES affect me. When insurance companies start asking who wears helmets and gear and who doesn't and determines there rates based on that then I will be all for you to make whatever choices you want. In the mean time we are all treated the same. My rates shouldn't be based on the fact that others choose to basically be uninsured as far as wearing gear goes. I've had two accidents. One as a teen with no gear and one with gear. Road rash doesn't feel very good when you get to the hospital and they use a brillo pad to clean the gravel out of your wound that is just raw meat. Accident with gear, I ended up with two broken wrists. It would have been worst if I had to deal with road rash under my casts.

It's better to have gear and not need it then to need it and not have it.

 

[1shot(bob)]

Not my definition, it's one of Webster's. Of course, there is a point of course as to how much you can or should try to protect your kids from harm or danger. I will encourage my son play football, and he'll use a helmet for that as well. I fully believe that you care just as much for your children as I do mine, it sounds like where we differ is our assessment of what is dangerous and to what extent.

My son played football at Union for 12 years and he always wore a helmet. The difference is the entire purpose of football is to bash heads with somebody.
I'm not against any one wearing a helmet, I just think it ought to be a choice.

... and that is where we are back to the issue at hand. What, if anything, is considered too dangerous to allow a child to do regardless of their parents opinion? Is there anything in your opinion that does?

Are you asking at what point do I think someone should step in and stop a parent from doing something that I (or society) deems stupid and harmful to the child? If so, never.
Steve Austin (the Aussie alligator guy) held his newborn in front of a full grown alligator. Was it stupid in my opinion? Yes. Should the child be taken from him? No.
Michael Jackson held his son over a balcony ledge so everyone could see him. Stupid? Yes. Reason to take the child? No.
My cousin allowed his 1st grader to race motocross and race cars. Stupid? Yes (IMO). Should his child be taken away? No.
A father and mother with hold medicine from a dying child because it is against their religious beliefs. Stupid? Yes. Take the child? Never.
The acrobatic plane that crashed over the weekend was piloted by the son of an aerobatic pilot that died in an air show accident. The wife was the daughter of another one that died the same day. They both did what they did because the fathers taught the trade to them. Stupid? Some people think so. Take the kids? Never.
The list can go on and on, from lion tamers, to people that teach kids to do a lot of dangerous things. We may think it's stupid, but is it really our opinion that matters?
It really is a matter of 'the state knows better than you about what is good for you' isn't it? And even if they are right, don't I have a right to be stupid if I so desire?

 

[1shot(bob)]

It DOES affect me. When insurance companies start asking who wears helmets and gear and who doesn't and determines there rates based on that then I will be all for you to make whatever choices you want. In the mean time we are all treated the same. My rates shouldn't be based on the fact that others choose to basically be uninsured as far as wearing gear goes. I've had two accidents. One as a teen with no gear and one with gear. Road rash doesn't feel very good when you get to the hospital and they use a brillo pad to clean the gravel out of your wound that is just raw meat. Accident with gear, I ended up with two broken wrists. It would have been worst if I had to deal with road rash under my casts.

It's better to have gear and not need it then to need it and not have it.

That's a collective bargaining issue. You and they are playing the odds and they get to set the standard. It has nothing to do with rights, which is what I am concerned with.

I agree with your quote to an extent. I've ridden for over 30 years and had 2 accidents. I only have a small amount of road rash on my head and I am thankful for the leathers I wore that day. A helmet, much like a seatbelt, would have killed me that day.

Some times safety gear isn't all that safe.

 

[OKCShooter]

I'm amazed that a Parent would put a child on a motorcycle with them without BASIC SAFETY EQUIPMENT (Helmet and long pants/jacket)

Absolutely blows my mind that someone would then DEFEND that decision.