new rifle

[okjoek]

I've been thinking about a new rifle. Was looking for something I could use for varmits and long range shooting. I have an old Swede and really like the 6.5x55 caliber. I am considering the 6.5x284, 6.5x47, 6.5 Creedmore, and the 260 Ackley. The 6.5x284 I've read is a real barrel burner, though if you don't load too hot probably isn't. I think all maybe fairly close in ballistics so I am leaning towards 260 AI as I could get ammo off the shelf if necessary, though I will probably always reload. Planning to build off a Savage action, probably short action.
Anyone with real likes or dislikes in the above calibers please let me know thoughts.

 

[shortgrass]

The 6.5mm's seem to be the going thing these days. I've heard a gagillion times that the 6.5 x 284 is a throat washer, but, not from someone who has done it, only what they heard. If you throttle any caliber to the max you should expect barrel wear, it goes with the territory. Seems 2800/2900 fps is the 'sweet spot' so if you stay within those velocities barrel wear should be pretty close on all that you mentioned. How many Garand barrels have I seen the throats shot out of, and they're .30-06, not known as a barrel burner by any means. All but the 6.5 x 284 will feed readily from a magazine while the 6.5 x 284 takes some work to make it feed reliabily. Long range calls for heavy bullets which like more twist, varmint bullets may or may not shoot well from a barrel designed for heavy bullets. The 260 Remington is one of the 'kings' at the long range tactical shoots over at Raton, along with the 6.5 x 47 Lapua and 6.5 Creedmore. Take your pick!

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Just get the Savage 12 "F Class Precision Target Rifle" in 6.5mm-.284, and be done with it then!

First, it's not a barrel burner - .264 win mag or 6.5mm-.300 WSM - now *those* are barrel-burners - and the -.284 is quite a bit tamer. Second, I think as we go along here, 6.5-284 (standardized by Norma) is going to be quite a bit more available "off the shelf" than is .260 AI, if it's not already, and components are readily available (high quality ones from norma, lapua, etc.). Not to mention you'll get better performance at lower pressures than .260 AI. Go to www.midwayusa.com right now and look for yourself to see what's currently available - I don't know for sure, but I'd guess 6.5-284 is easier to get, both in brass and loaded ammo!

There's a reason that the 6.5-284 is the most popular long range cartridge among F class shooters - it strikes the best balance between long-range performance (minimizing wind drift), and barrel life. And the 30" barrel of the Savage can really make this round scream, even with not-so-hot, barrel-preserving handloads. Most guys (in my understanding) find that the 6.5-284 loads with the crazy-BC 139s which end up being the most accurate, are NOT max loads but rather eased off a bit at around 2900 fps - with those kind of loads, your barrel will last a long long time if you don't shoot matches every weekend - not to mention, come out of the Savage 30" bbl at 3000+.

The ONLY knock I can possibly think of on the Savage (which I'm going to find out, since I'm thinking of getting one), and my only concern at this point is: Since this 12 F Class PTR is on a short action, I don't know how long you can load the bullets without hitting the lands. If there's not much freebore, then the long bullets might impede powder capacity a bit - not sure...

As far a feeding? Meh, a long range rifle should arguably be a single shot anyway (as the 12 F class PTR and many others are), in order to maximize receiver rigidity for accuracy reasons. So not a concern for me.

The .260/.260 AI/ 6.5 creedmoor/6x47 family of rounds exist for 3 (very good) reasons, but 3 reasons only:

1. For a short barrel, short receiver, lightweight HUNTING rifle, they are fantastic options.

2. For long-range "practical" shooting competitions, where there is more of a premium on lighter weight and extremely-minimized barrel burn, but at the expense of uber-accuracy, for a few reasons: One, they're trying to "make a hit" on a man-sized targets at long range, not make tiny groups at long range, so they can sacrifice a smidgeon of accuracy (wind drift minimization). Second, they need a slightly lighter-weight rifle, not a bench rifle, because these competitions involving moving around a bit with your rifle, and shooting from various positions, and so do not jive well with ultra-heavy benchrest type rifles. So that means they don't want the super long 28, 30 or longer inch barrels, to balance a reasonable weight. Well, without the long barrel, you don't really get nearly as much of the benefit of the higher-capacity cartridges like 6.5mm-'06 and 6.5mm-.284 norma, and therefore it makes more sense to use the shorter/slimmer case rounds, and save some powder and minimize recoil. Finally, the practical shooting type guys tend to shoot a LOT of rounds, so throat erosion is more of a concern for them than some benchrest guys, particularly guys that just shoot casually from the bench, and don't compete much, if at all.

3. They fit into an AR10 type platform.

Make no mistake, it's easier to minimize wind drift estimation error, as well as holdover/dope error, with higher vels than with not, and 6.5-284 and similar capacity rounds, and longer barrels, are what give you the better vels.

FWIW, probably the main reason I havn't gotten the Savage 12 F class PTR for myself yet, is simply because I think I'm going to run with 6.5mm-'06 rather than 6.5mm-284 for my long range bench gun, which means custom, which means money, which means I have to wait until I save some $$ - I'm going with 6.5mm-06 because it has measurably better performance than 6.5mm-284, and with the long action, there's no question there about free-bore and possibility of impeding case capacity. Plus, with a custom rifle, I'll be able to dictate how much freebore I want. YMMV.

Another one to consider is 6.5x55 swede which is an old round, sort of in limbo as a tweener round in case capacity between .260 AI and 6.5-284 Norma. But heck, if you're seriously considering .260 AI, why not just go with 6.5x55 - then you can use an old, standardized, much-cheaper cartridge and equal or beat the .260 AI with the same or less pressure? Unless I'm missing something (which is certainly a possiblity), I fail to see the point of .260 AI. Lapua and others make fantastic brass for 6.5x55!! So I'd go with 6.5-.284 norma over either one of these for performance reasons, but I'd go with 6.5x55 over .260 AI for both performance and cost/ease reasons. Remember, you're not limited by the dumbed-down reloading manual data for the 6.5x55 cartridge.

If you're NOT gonna shoot that much, then you also might consider the ultimate screamer (arguably) in this area - the 6.5mm-.300 WSM (or 6.5-.270 WSM or whatever you want to call it).

 

[jbarnett]

Just get the Savage 12 "F Class Precision Target Rifle" in 6.5mm-.284, and be done with it then!

First, it's not a barrel burner - .264 win mag - now that's a barrel-burner, and the -.284 is quite a bit tamer. Second, I think as we go along here, 6.5-284 (standardized by Norma) is going to be quite a bit more available "off the shelf" than is .260 AI, if it's not already, and components are readily available (high quality ones from norma, lapua, etc.). Not to mention you'll get better performance at lower pressures than .260 AI.

I have been looking at the 6.5-284 and/or the 6mmBR.

 

[okie98]

The 6.5 has always been my pet. I have a CZ in 6.5X55 and love it. I started shooting the Swede round back in the early 70s and have been hooked ever since. I really want another .264 Mag but just haven't found the right one yet. The 6.5-284 is about the equal of the .264 and so has the same rep. for throat erosion. I found that loading less than max loads and avoiding rapid repeated firing resulted in very acceptable barrel life. When we shot prairie dog in Colorado, we would use 2 or 3 rifles. That way we did not overheat and burn out the barrels. I would definitely go for a .25-284.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The 6.5-284 is about the equal of the .264

Except that really, it's not. The .264 Win Mag gives you 300-350 fps more in 139/140 grainers than 6.5-284 (around 12-13% more vel). The .264 win mag's reputation for barrel burning is well-deserved.

and so has the same rep. for throat erosion.

If that's true then it's completely undeserved because it's not even close (see above).

I agree that the 6.5x55 is a great choice, and when loaded to it's full potential, is almost the equal of the 6.5-284 - just a scrunthair away in performance. Not talking about the .260 rem-equiv. reload-manual data of course.

I would definitely go for a .25-284.

Now that one I'm not familiar with, but it sounds interesting - it would be a barrel burner, but it would sure also give some great performance at long ranges with 117s-120s. Should be roughly equal to .25-'06 though.

 

[okjoek]

I am just learning rifles, have mostly shot shotguns in my life. I have shot some rifles and have a couple of centerfires. A fairly heavy .308 and the old Swedish Mauser. I like both, but the 6.5X55 Swede is a sweet cartridge, so that is what I am wanting to use as my base. I would probably be happy with just a modern 6.5x55, of course you could also Ackley that. And as you say, all I have found are the conservative loads for this as they don't want to get dangerous pressures in all the old guns. I'm sure I can get better for a modern gun.
Shells are available for the 260 Ackley as you can just shoot the 260 and fireform as I'm sure you are aware for the brass. I will reload for whatever I end up with. I've been enjoying shooting so much more since I started making my own.
I have seen the Savage F class rifle and like it quite a lot. They also make a long range hunter in the same 6.5x284 that I haven't seen anything but a picture of but it looks good too.

 

[Leadlobber]

I talked to a F class shooter at a match on Sat, he said he last 6.5 x 284 barrel was good to 2200 rounds

I like what I read about the 6 X 47 & the Creedmore good info at 6mmBR.com

 

[Leadlobber]

demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

Here is the good article

 

[264Magnum]

Except that really, it's not. The .264 Win Mag gives you 300-350 fps more in 139/140 grainers than 6.5-284 (around 12-13% more vel). The .264 win mag's reputation for barrel burning is well-deserved.

Hell yeah!