Red Dawn......Russian comment on 4473's!

[Seedy]

Wolverines!

 

[JB Books]

They were actually yellow sheets back then.

 

[J.P.]

Hmmmm....


McBeath ain't around right now so I'll go ahead and do the honors....


AVENGE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jsl_pt]

The ATF has obtained records in Alaska from ffl's, went to several, some refused and some complied.

 

[cktad]

The ATF has obtained records in Alaska from ffl's, went to several, some refused and some complied.

I don't buy that the FFL's refused them access to their records. According to Federal law FFL's are required to let the BATF inspect their records. To refuse would mean they would revoke your license and seize the records anyway.
They have gotten gun sale records from FFL's in Oklahoma, remember the Glock that they wanted in connection with the two little girls killed in Weleetka, Okla.

In the late 1990's I bought a gun from a friend who owned a gun shop, filled out a Fm 4473. I shot it and didn't like it so he took it back in trade. He later sold that gun and a year later it was used in a crime in Florida. The BATF somehow traced it back to his shop and then to me. They only talked to him and he showed them where I had returned it and he had resold it. We never figured out how they traced it back to him as the guy committing the crime was not the guy who bought it from him.

 

[jsl_pt]

I don't buy that the FFL's refused them access to their records. According to Federal law FFL's are required to let the BATF inspect their records. To refuse would mean they would revoke your license and seize the records anyway.
They have gotten gun sale records from FFL's in Oklahoma, remember the Glock that they wanted in connection with the two little girls killed in Weleetka, Okla.

In the late 1990's I bought a gun from a friend who owned a gun shop, filled out a Fm 4473. I shot it and didn't like it so he took it back in trade. He later sold that gun and a year later it was used in a crime in Florida. The BATF somehow traced it back to his shop and then to me. They only talked to him and he showed them where I had returned it and he had resold it. We never figured out how they traced it back to him as the guy committing the crime was not the guy who bought it from him.

Sorry to clarify, from what I have heard and read, they wanted to TAKE the books and/or make copies... I forget the specifics, some refused this allegedly as they are not allowed to take records out of building unless it is related to specific investigation which this was not. All ffl's let them look the books and allowed ACCESS but some refused to let them take the records due to it is against regulations if it is not related to a specific investigation,again according to the report I heard for a gun club organizer and ffl that was involved in Alaska on a radio show.

 

[jsl_pt]

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/young-meets-atf-about-agents-asking-alaska-gun-shops-books

Here is the article relating to story for better specifics....

 

[p238shooter]

I would hope all firearms dealers keep all records of firearms I have purchased on their person and secure at all times, especially while they are boating. We would not want to have them destroyed in a mysterious fire or theft while they might be away from their premises.

 

[cktad]

This is from the article: While ATF agents are permitted to conduct routine, in-shop compliance inspections, federal law forbids the removal or copying of such material unless there’s an official criminal investigation. One fear is that the ATF will create some sort of list or database of gun owners, which has been illegal since 2011.
How hard would it be for the ATF to say they wanted them for an "official criminal investigation" and it's only been illegal for the ATF to create a list or database of gun owners since 2011? So they could do that prior to 2011!

 

[MLR]

I need to start a legal contribution jar at my store because if they came to confiscate my books and paperwork there would be a fire and I would no doubt go to jail for obstruction of justice.

Ummmm, what happens to those records when you close down your store? Say go out of business or retire?

Michael