Republican National Convention SHAM!!!

[JB Books]

CJ we all are subjects of a government, all over the world, unless maybe you live in the bush somewhere in Africa or South America. How can any of you expect not to be a " subject?" and please spare me the schoolboy rhetoric about subjects and citizens. As citizens, we are subject to the laws of the US.

What exactly do you guys want? Anarchy? Separate city-states? What's your solution?

 

[mons meg]

I personally, just want a government limited in power by the damn rulebook they agreed on a couple hundred years ago...not a giant heaping helping of legalistic justifications for exerting power over one another.

The only way to reduce corruption is to reduce government power. The vast majority of self identified libertarians are NOT advocating for anarchy, J.B, or even destroying the social safety net. (1/6th of Americans on Food Stamps is NOT a safety net) We just want the Federal Government to roll back to the point where the States can actually act as 50 separate "laboratories of democracy". A night watchman State, not a Babysitter.

I know....call me CRAZY.

 

[Lurker66]

CJ we all are subjects of a government, all over the world, unless maybe you live in the bush somewhere in Africa or South America. How can any of you expect not to be a " subject?" and please spare me the schoolboy rhetoric about subjects and citizens. As citizens, we are subject to the laws of the US.

What exactly do you guys want? Anarchy? Separate city-states? What's your solution?

You cant ask for solutions or answers. Either agree or disagree, thats the limit of dialog.

 

[11b1776]

Once again, the “you must choose between the two” rhetoric rears its ugly head. Just as good a solution is to just not participate in their charade. God I get tired of the brainwashed masses putting their life-long training to good use. “If you don’t vote, you can’t complain”. “A vote for ‘xxxxxx’ is a vote for ‘yyyyyyy’”. “If you don’t vote, you’ve essentially voted for ‘xxxxxxx’”. And the most ignorant one of all: “pick the lesser of two evils”. Can’t people see how stupid and futile this all is? Run around and feel good about exercising your freedom and rights, all the while blind to the fact that that exercise is an exercise in futility: we don’t control a thing, and can’t change a thing. We are subjects of a government that controls us, period. But we feel good thinking we make a difference.

Voting for the “lesser of two evils” is still voting for evil. And people are comfortable with that?

What's the solution then, your damned if you vote and damned if you don't...

 

[Lurker66]

I personally, just want a government limited in power by the damn rulebook they agreed on a couple hundred years ago...not a giant heaping helping of legalistic justifications for exerting power over one another.

The only way to reduce corruption is to reduce government power. The vast majority of self identified libertarians are NOT advocating for anarchy, J.B, or even destroying the social safety net. (1/6th of Americans on Food Stamps is NOT a safety net) We just want the Federal Government to roll back to the point where the States can actually act as 50 separate "laboratories of democracy". A night watchman State, not a Babysitter.

I know....call me CRAZY.

I think we've moved too far past the idea of individual states. You can never be truely free unless every state adopts the same laws.

To me the major flaw in our government is the idea that a state can create a law. If federal law does not apply, then we, as citizens, are free to do whatever. If Federal Law is silent, there is no need for a state law.

 

[cjjtulsa]

CJ we all are subjects of a government, all over the world, unless maybe you live in the bush somewhere in Africa or South America. How can any of you expect not to be a " subject?" and please spare me the schoolboy rhetoric about subjects and citizens. As citizens, we are subject to the laws of the US.

What exactly do you guys want? Anarchy? Separate city-states? What's your solution?

As per the basis of my rant, I’d like a system where the votes of the people actually matter, not this facade of “doing your duty” and voting for two people who are basically given to the masses from which to choose, and both basically sponsored by entities (sometimes supporting both candidates) that – for all intents and purposes – “buys” our choice in exchange for doing their bidding. The will of those that are supposed to be “served” by the elected is ignored, and the whole system is perverted. Yes, we are all “subjects” to some degree, but the extent that we are here in the United States is contrary to the vision of those who established the place.

As for your other question: to a certain degree, isn’t a united group of separate states kind of what the architects of this nation had in mind in the first place? I think that whole premise is the catalyst for the many “states rights” arguments since the Constitution was signed. You’re better educated than me, so if I’m off base, steer me in the right direction.

 

[cjjtulsa]

I think we've moved too far past the idea of individual states. You can never be truely free unless every state adopts the same laws.

Just the opposite. If every state abides by the same laws, where’s the freedom in that? Allowing states to have at least some leeway in writing their own laws, it allows people to freely move to states that better support their views and beliefs.

 

[mons meg]

Lurker66,

Our very system of government is supposed to be based on the "dual sovereignty" model. We are NOT "America", we are the United States. Think about what that literally means for a minute. The 10th Amendment is in the Bill of Rights for a reason...they couldn't "sell" the Constitution to the original 13 States without those concessions.

If California passes a stupid law (I know, never happens, right) then those people are free to leave for Arizona. This is freedom. If Arizona laws are a copy of California laws under a purely central Federal system, then you are not as free, are you?

I periodically joke that I only claim to be a political libertarian because nobody knows what I'm talking about if I say I'm an Anti-Federalist.

 

[LightningCrash]

I think we've moved too far past the idea of individual states. You can never be truely free unless every state adopts the same laws.

To me the major flaw in our government is the idea that a state can create a law. If federal law does not apply, then we, as citizens, are free to do whatever. If Federal Law is silent, there is no need for a state law.

Having some individual sovereignty means we can flesh out ideas in a higher failure model to find better solutions.

 

[JB Books]

As per the basis of my rant, I’d like a system where the votes of the people actually matter, not this facade of “doing your duty” and voting for two people who are basically given to the masses from which to choose, and both basically sponsored by entities (sometimes supporting both candidates) that – for all intents and purposes – “buys” our choice in exchange for doing their bidding. The will of those that are supposed to be “served” by the elected is ignored, and the whole system is perverted. Yes, we are all “subjects” to some degree, but the extent that we are here in the United States is contrary to the vision of those who established the place.

As for your other question: to a certain degree, isn’t a united group of separate states kind of what the architects of this nation had in mind in the first place? I think that whole premise is the catalyst for the many “states rights” arguments since the Constitution was signed. You’re better educated than me, so if I’m off base, steer me in the right direction.

CJ, I don't have any answers. I am disgusted by the whole state of politics in America from the local to the national level. It is sickening. Both parties will do and say anything to get elected. The are different sides of the same counterfeit coin. The Republicans want to legislate morality, take away your rights to redress greivances in court and basically work for Big Business and Big Insurance. The Democrats want to tell you what you can eat and God Forbid you make any comment that could, in the most vague of terms, be construed as politically incorrect. What more can you do but try to get by? We're still the greatest nation on Earth.

I agree with a lot of Mons Meg's post in post #48. There is an advantage to being able to move to where people are more like minded.