Rise of the Warrior Cop

[chevyboy123]

Did things like that not happen in the 1920s or 18xx with six guns and leveractions

 

[Norman]

Late 18's and 20's. Do you know what the reaction was? They tracked them down and shot them in an ambush, often with full auto's (military arms such as BAR's and 1928 Thompsons), from a concealed position without saying a word. It doesn't get more "militarized" than a near ambush.

 

[ripnbst]

Late 18's and 20's. Do you know what the reaction was? They tracked them down and shot them in an ambush, often with full auto's (military arms such as BAR's and 1928 Thompsons), from a concealed position without saying a word. It doesn't get more "militarized" than a near ambush.

And yet it seems it didn't happen to the wrong people in those days. More intelligence? Or just more intelligent?

 

[Gideon]

This should have been titled "Rise of the OSA Doper".

For the record, I'm straight edge, I don't believe it to be acceptable to put any mind altering substances in my body, not even alcohol. This guy broke the law, he should have been arrested and his home searched as per the warrant issued by the court system. The issue isn't his crime, it's the fact that due to poor police work innocent people are now at risk of being murdered in their own homes by thugs in black masks who should be chasing down legitimate criminals.

I laugh every time I read were police shouldn't do night time raids, or all of a sudden people are experts on how to conduct police operations.

Ironically, I am an expert, I've been involved in multiple operations, policy writing sessions, and training exercises in my line of work that deal with far more dangerous people than most cops ever see.

This world isn't Mayberry anymore, Criminals evolved their tactics, so Police must do the same. It's not "Militarization".

One of the new tactics that they will be employing is "SWATting", when they call in anonymous tips to the police department alleging illegal activities being conducted by random strangers in order to get their home raided and searched, thereby tying up police manpower and resources and embarrassing the LEO's reputation. This could be prevented very easily if a select few people would stop sucking at their jobs.

 

[Norman]

And yet it seems it didn't happen to the wrong people in those days. More intelligence? Or just more intelligent?

It SEEMS it didn't happen. My guess is that it was less populace and a little more intel. The biggest attributes I'd wager would be the main stream media, pop culture and open forums in social media. Take the Guerena and Martin cases 30 years ago no one would have heard of them. Now they get sensationalized by the MSM for ratings, and go viral on the internet. It became cool to protest for Martin because he was used for the benefit of the media, political figures and pundits. Look at the Guerena case. An illegal drug wholesaler in a 4.5 million dollar operation brings a rifle to bare on officers and gets killed. For a while everyone who didn't know the facts projected their own life into that situation and it became "oh noes! This po-leece are killing everyone up in here". Why? Because it was sensationalized by the media and then went viral in our knee jerk society

 

[Kyle78]

For the record, I'm straight edge, I don't believe it to be acceptable to put any mind altering substances in my body, not even alcohol. This guy broke the law, he should have been arrested and his home searched as per the warrant issued by the court system. The issue isn't his crime, it's the fact that due to poor police work innocent people are now at risk of being murdered in their own homes by thugs in black masks who should be chasing down legitimate criminals.



Ironically, I am an expert, I've been involved in multiple operations, policy writing sessions, and training exercises in my line of work that deal with far more dangerous people than most cops ever see.



One of the new tactics that they will be employing is "SWATting", when they call in anonymous tips to the police department alleging illegal activities being conducted by random strangers in order to get their home raided and searched, thereby tying up police manpower and resources and embarrassing the LEO's reputation. This could be prevented very easily if a select few people would stop sucking at their jobs.

Your points are making no sense, If the guy had a weed farm in his basement, was a armed felon. How's that not a legitimate raid?

Do share in your expertise then, making vague references to your work, with out examples, proves nothing.

What does "swatting" have to do with any of my statements?

 

[Norman]

Ironically, I am an expert, I've been involved in multiple operations, policy writing sessions, and training exercises in my line of work that deal with far more dangerous people than most cops ever see.

Care to post your credentials, training and experience? The reason I ask is because you're a self proclaimed expert in tactics and law enforcement operations, and since you could only be doing it for 4 years maximum that would pretty much make you a savant.

 

[cmhbob]

I know it's Wikipedia, but this writeup of the Guerena raid says that the safety on his AR15 was still on, and it had not been fired, and that no drugs were found in his system. Yes, "weapons, a bag of marijuana, a stolen vehicle, and accounting ledgers allegedly related to drug trafficking operations" were found at a storage unit rented by his relatives.

Here's the deal. If cops are going to conduct an arrest assault on someone, as agents of the State, it is absolutely incumbent on them to make sure that the risk of harm to innocent people is as low as they can possibly get it. I have to wonder why they didn't follow him how from his shift at the mine, and get him as he got out of his car in the driveway.

The intel-gathering done by some of the police departments in this country just sucks. Really, it does. And unfortunately, no one is held accountable when innocent people die because of it. Nothing will change until cops are held personally accountable. And don't hand me that crap that it will tie their hands, or make it harder for them to do their job. It doesn't make it harder for doctors, and we hold them accountable for medical mistakes. We can hold cops accountable for stuff they know or should have reasonably known. They do it to us all the time.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap

 

[Norman]

I know it's Wikipedia, but this writeup of the Guerena raid says that the safety on his AR15 was still on, and it had not been fired, and that no drugs were found in his system. Yes, "weapons, a bag of marijuana, a stolen vehicle, and accounting ledgers allegedly related to drug trafficking operations" were found at a storage unit rented by his relatives.

Here's the deal. If cops are going to conduct an arrest assault on someone, as agents of the State, it is absolutely incumbent on them to make sure that the risk of harm to innocent people is as low as they can possibly get it. I have to wonder why they didn't follow him how from his shift at the mine, and get him as he got out of his car in the driveway.

The intel-gathering done by some of the police departments in this country just sucks. Really, it does. And unfortunately, no one is held accountable when innocent people die because of it. Nothing will change until cops are held personally accountable. And don't hand me that crap that it will tie their hands, or make it harder for them to do their job. It doesn't make it harder for doctors, and we hold them accountable for medical mistakes. We can hold cops accountable for stuff they know or should have reasonably known. They do it to us all the time.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap

There's no such thing as an "arrest assault". Again, this was a search warrant. There is a difference between an arrest warrant and a search warrant. One is to arrest the person in question. The other is to search a specified area for a specific article.
Can you tell me where I said drugs were in his system? Or that he fired a round? Does it matter? I said he brought a weapon to bare.

eta: whats with the innocent in danger red herring? None of the people that were subject to the warrants were "innocent". Both brought weapons to bare, and appeared to be involved in narcotics.

 

[cmhbob]

The word you're looking for is "bear," not "bare." And the simple act of pointing a weapon at an officer (while one is in a disoriented state due to the tactics of those officers) does not immediately justify opening fire. And opening fire doesn't justify holding EMS back for over an hour while your subject bleeds to death without any on-scene medical attention.

It's hardly a red herring when so many raids (arrest or search) have resulted in the death or injury of innocent people. Law enforcement has a duty to minimize the risk to innocent people in or near the site of a raid of any kind. How can you justify no-knock or tactical entry raids against a bunch of old people who engaged in low-level gambling? How can you justify stuff like this?

In 1989, police in Minneapolis, Minnesota conduct a drug raid at the home of elderly African-American couple Lloyd Smalley and Lillian Weiss after a bad tip from an informant. The flashbang grenades police use in the raid set the home on fire. Police are certain no one is inside, and so at first make no attempt at rescue. Smalley and Weiss die of smoke inhalation. Police had raided the wrong house. Ten years later, the same police department would make a similar mistake. The deployment of a flashbang during a drug raid on a triplex would cause the entire building to catch fire, ruining the two homes surrounding the target of the raid. Sources: Karren Mills, "City Image Tarnished By Allegations of Police Racism," Associated Press, March 21, 1989. David Chanen, "Police device used in search is considered safe, official says," Minneapolis Star Tribune, March 17, 2000, p. 7B.

How?

How can you justify hitting a target and not knowing if your target is able to hear your commands? That should be on the list of target intel, shouldn't it? "Does our subject have any disabilities that might make it difficult to move, or to hear/respond to us?" Then you avoid killing a 62-year-old deaf man.

On August 2, 1996, police storm the home of 62-year-old Salvator Hernandez on a drug raid. The raid is part of a broader raid that morning involving 47 police officers and federal agents. Hernandez, who is nearly deaf, is making breakfast for himself and his friend, 54-year old Bortolo Pineda. According to police, as they entered the home, Hernandez took the knife he was using to make breakfast and "lunged" at them with a "menacing" look on his face. According to Pineda, Hernandez didn't hear the police shouts, and had turned to get some sausage from the refrigerator. Police opened fire, and hit Hernandez in the chest five times, killing him. Hernandez was a farmworker described by friends and his employer as a "good man," and a "good worker." He had no criminal record, and in fact had been a police officer in Mexico before coming to America. He was a grandfather of 21 and a great-grandfather of one. There were no drugs on his person or in his system. Just days later, a grand jury would clear the raiding officers of all charges, ruling that they had reason to believe their lives were in danger. Salem police pointedly refused to apologize for Hernandez's death. Sources: Cheryl Martinis, "Two Salem officers kill 63 year-old," The Oregonian, August 3, 1996. Laura Trujillo, "Jury clears police in fatal shooting," The Oregonian, August 8, 1996. Laura Trujillo, "Police in Salem decline to apologize," The Oregonian, August 9, 1996. Laura Trujillo, "The Shooting of Salvador Hernandez," The Oregonian, Septebmer 1, 1996.

I was paraphrasing when I said "arrest assault." Creating a new phrase, if you will. Something like Jeff Cooper's word "hoplophobe."

An "arrest assault" is a generally unnecessary show of extreme force conducted against low-risk targets with a general intent to justify the existence of expensive tactical equipment.

How's that for a definition?