The role of combatives/martial arts in the self defense spectrum

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Shakkazombie

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Aikido is good for a civilian who wants to learn some type of h2h but if I were you I wouldn't keep jumping around from style to style pick one and learn it and then you can take from it what you want. If you want to learn something that will most likely fill all of your needs in a fighting style go with lua (kuʻialua) you wont find many white folks teaching this and if you do find one check them out before you pay the money.

Actually, in my opinion, if you're looking for an art that will teach you hand to hand fighting skills, than Aikido is not a good choice at all. That is to say, it's about the least efficient path towards fighting skill that I can think of. Let me be clear: I think Aikido is a wonderful martial art, with so much to offer its practitioners, but I can name many, many other arts that will give you usable skills in a fraction of the necessary training time. Aikido as a martial art is so far removed by time (and culture) from when the techniques were trained realistically for combat purposes that its almost abstract. There are probably some schools out there that train to perform Aikido techniques against attackers employing common fighting techniques (punches, kicks, takedowns, etc.) at full or nearly full speed with full or nearly full resistance, but they're the exception. In Aikido, if you're training in a school that is concerned at all with ranking their students with an affiliated national or international Aikido organization, then you're having to do double the training (traditional-style techniques, then the same techniques "street" style) if you want real, usable skills ASAP. Not very efficient if your goal is to train primarily for self defense purposes. I would estimate that it took me 2-3 years before I felt like I had trained enough to be able to utilize what I knew in an altercation.

I stuck with Aikido (and Judo and Jujutsu, all with the same instructor) for 4 years, made it to shodan (1st degree black belt), and after that, trained when I had the time/money/opportunity. I never school or style hopped. Once I went back to Aikido after about 2-3 years away, I found that my priorities had changed, which led me to seek out the most effective combat/fighting techniques taught in the most efficient, and stimulating, manner. Thus, I now practice Sayoc Kali, because it fills all of my personal criteria for a combatives system. I am open to learning new things in the future, though, in order to fill in the holes in my game.

The inherent problem with the martial art you mentioned above is that it's going to be a problem finding anyone who can teach it. And if you do find someone who claims to know it, then how legitimate are they? If a martial art is exceedingly rare, then there's a good chance that many of the people you come across who teach it are dishonest. There are so many more common martial arts that would give a person more than enough hand to hand training. Now, if you can find someone who can legitimately teach kuʻialua, then I'd jump on it like crazy (from what I can glean from the internet, it sounds fascinating).

I also think that cross training is a totally valid approach to learning martial arts. A good solid base in something is important, but you can always pick up good info from other arts. Hell, if you study the Inosanto system of martial arts, then you're learning like 7 different disciplines (JKD, Kali, Silat, and more). With the basis I had in Aikido (and, to a lesser extent, Judo and Jujutsu), I was able to move quickly into boxing, and pick up a lot of information in a short amount of time (about 3-4 months before I moved back to the States). That's another plus of studying martial arts (at least for me): constantly having to learn and apply new techniques and concepts has taught me ho to pick up new things quickly (physically and mentally).

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to be honest with yourself about what you want and how far you're willing to go to get it, do your research, and then go train.
 
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Spec ops Grunt

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"Scorning all treacherous feud and deadly strife, The dark stilletto and the murderous knife, We boast a science sprung from manly pride, Linked with true courage and with health allied - A noble pastime void of vain pretense, The fine old English art of self-defense." -Jem Burn, English 1820's bare knuckle boxer



Anyone know a good place around Tulsa to learn Boxing? I'd like to learn that and some sort of grappling.
 

Jon3830

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Actually, in my opinion, if you're looking for an art that will teach you hand to hand fighting skills, than Aikido is not a good choice at all. That is to say, it's about the least efficient path towards fighting skill that I can think of. Let me be clear: I think Aikido is a wonderful martial art, with so much to offer its practitioners, but I can name many, many other arts that will give you usable skills in a fraction of the necessary training time. Aikido as a martial art is so far removed by time (and culture) from when the techniques were trained realistically for combat purposes that its almost abstract. There are probably some schools out there that train to perform Aikido techniques against attackers employing common fighting techniques (punches, kicks, takedowns, etc.) at full or nearly full speed with full or nearly full resistance, but they're the exception. In Aikido, if you're training in a school that is concerned at all with ranking their students with an affiliated national or international Aikido organization, then you're having to do double the training (traditional-style techniques, then the same techniques "street" style) if you want real, usable skills ASAP. Not very efficient if your goal is to train primarily for self defense purposes. I would estimate that it took me 2-3 years before I felt like I had trained enough to be able to utilize what I knew in an altercation.

I stuck with Aikido (and Judo and Jujutsu, all with the same instructor) for 4 years, made it to shodan (1st degree black belt), and after that, trained when I had the time/money/opportunity. I never school or style hopped. Once I went back to Aikido after about 2-3 years away, I found that my priorities had changed, which led me to seek out the most effective combat/fighting techniques taught in the most efficient, and stimulating, manner. Thus, I now practice Sayoc Kali, because it fills all of my personal criteria for a combatives system. I am open to learning new things in the future, though, in order to fill in the holes in my game.

The inherent problem with the martial art you mentioned above is that it's going to be a problem finding anyone who can teach it. And if you do find someone who claims to know it, then how legitimate are they? If a martial art is exceedingly rare, then there's a good chance that many of the people you come across who teach it are dishonest. There are so many more common martial arts that would give a person more than enough hand to hand training. Now, if you can find someone who can legitimately teach kuʻialua, then I'd jump on it like crazy (from what I can glean from the internet, it sounds fascinating).

I also think that cross training is a totally valid approach to learning martial arts. A good solid base in something is important, but you can always pick up good info from other arts. Hell, if you study the Inosanto system of martial arts, then you're learning like 7 different disciplines (JKD, Kali, Silat, and more). With the basis I had in Aikido (and, to a lesser extent, Judo and Jujutsu), I was able to move quickly into boxing, and pick up a lot of information in a short amount of time (about 3-4 months before I moved back to the States). That's another plus of studying martial arts (at least for me): constantly having to learn and apply new techniques and concepts has taught me ho to pick up new things quickly (physically and mentally).

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to be honest with yourself about what you want and how far you're willing to go to get it, do your research, and then go train.

Yeah I should have been more clear with my post about Aikido the Aikido class I took years ago was geared towards law enforcement and it was more practical for the street after spending 2 years in class I feel that I learned a great deal. As for the lua I started learning that at a young age because my godfather was kanaka maoli and he grew learning lua in Hawaii and he would teach me new stuff all the time for 17 years until he passed away and I wish I could learn more because I know there is so much more of it I don't know.
 

Michael Brown

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"Scorning all treacherous feud and deadly strife, The dark stilletto and the murderous knife, We boast a science sprung from manly pride, Linked with true courage and with health allied - A noble pastime void of vain pretense, The fine old English art of self-defense." -Jem Burn, English 1820's bare knuckle boxer



Anyone know a good place around Tulsa to learn Boxing? I'd like to learn that and some sort of grappling.

There's a reason that boxing and grappling dominate the competitive martial arts.

Michael Brown
 

Shakkazombie

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"Scorning all treacherous feud and deadly strife, The dark stilletto and the murderous knife, We boast a science sprung from manly pride, Linked with true courage and with health allied - A noble pastime void of vain pretense, The fine old English art of self-defense." -Jem Burn, English 1820's bare knuckle boxer



Anyone know a good place around Tulsa to learn Boxing? I'd like to learn that and some sort of grappling.

I wish I knew; I'm only aware of a few good training opportunities in the OKC area for boxing. I have to echo what Mr. Brown posted above (though I certainly have less experience than he); it's my opinion that, if you're looking to get a good base in martial arts quickly, than taking up boxing and/or grappling would be the most efficient way possible. Are they the only options? No. Are they the most economical investment of time in order to gain self defense skills quickly, while also setting you up to more quickly understand and absorb other martial arts you may study later? Probably.

Boxing and grappling arts (specifically BJJ and Judo) share that all-important aspect of good self defense/combat training: you're trying to defeat a person who is actively trying to defeat you, with full aggression, at full speed.
 
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Shakkazombie

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Yeah I should have been more clear with my post about Aikido the Aikido class I took years ago was geared towards law enforcement and it was more practical for the street after spending 2 years in class I feel that I learned a great deal. As for the lua I started learning that at a young age because my godfather was kanaka maoli and he grew learning lua in Hawaii and he would teach me new stuff all the time for 17 years until he passed away and I wish I could learn more because I know there is so much more of it I don't know.

You're a lucky man. I'd love to get the chance to study that sometime.
 

purplehaze

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Check out cecil pettigrew at team lethal boxing

"Scorning all treacherous feud and deadly strife, The dark stilletto and the murderous knife, We boast a science sprung from manly pride, Linked with true courage and with health allied - A noble pastime void of vain pretense, The fine old English art of self-defense." -Jem Burn, English 1820's bare knuckle boxer



Anyone know a good place around Tulsa to learn Boxing? I'd like to learn that and some sort of grappling.
 

Koshinn

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Also, where do you study Bahala Na?

Oops sorry, haven't checked this post since I first replied.

I haven't done Bahala Na in a while, but when I did, it was in Irvine, California. A lot of Inosanto guys came to the class too, they always wore their Inosanto shirts. :p Is there anywhere in OKC to do other types of FMA?

I also like Bahala Na training better than most other types of training... you train as if you're doing it for real. If you mess up, you'll probably get hit with a stick or training sword or knife. Not by the instructor for being a failure, but by your partner because you messed up your block or timing.
 

Shakkazombie

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Oops sorry, haven't checked this post since I first replied.

I haven't done Bahala Na in a while, but when I did, it was in Irvine, California. A lot of Inosanto guys came to the class too, they always wore their Inosanto shirts. :p Is there anywhere in OKC to do other types of FMA?

I also like Bahala Na training better than most other types of training... you train as if you're doing it for real. If you mess up, you'll probably get hit with a stick or training sword or knife. Not by the instructor for being a failure, but by your partner because you messed up your block or timing.

Sounds exactly like the way Sayoc is trained. At Premier in Edmond (where I study Sayoc), they also teach the Inosanto System as taught by Guro Harley Elmore from Wichita Falls, TX (who is in town this weekend conducting a seminar!). You can also study with Guro BJ Stone at Hybrid Martial arts, who is another instructor of mine. You can't go wrong with either group.
 

tran

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I took Tae Kwon Do for 10 to 12 years as a young man and a couple of years Aikido. My kids have been in mixed arts for several years(8 - 10) My son loves the going toe to toe but he has very heavy hands to be 15. Good thing he is layed back personality.
 

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