tornado shelters and schools are now the attention.....

[excat]

Some people say they should have kids stay home on potential storm days, and have a parent stay home as well. Well, that would be great if you had a shelter in your house. You have higher chance of loss of life in a house with no shelter than in a school with no shelter.

Also, during the press conference today, they confirmed no kids drowned, they were all trapped in rubble and were not able to breathe. Horrifying fact, but that was confirmed today by the M.E. at the press conference.

A big issue we have is there are next to no public shelters in place. If in fact they did put in shelters in schools, they could be used as public shelters which is badly needed. I lived in Woodward for several years, and they had several public shelters. This is unacceptable for the tornado activity in this area (metro). So, if they could double the reason for having the shelters, it would help a lot.

It's amazing the loss of life was as little as it was.

 

[Dale00]

Some people say they should have kids stay home on potential storm days, and have a parent stay home as well. Well, that would be great if you had a shelter in your house. You have higher chance of loss of life in a house with no shelter than in a school with no shelter.

Also, during the press conference today, they confirmed no kids drowned, they were all trapped in rubble and were not able to breathe. Horrifying fact, but that was confirmed today by the M.E. at the press conference.

A big issue we have is there are next to no public shelters in place. If in fact they did put in shelters in schools, they could be used as public shelters which is badly needed. I lived in Woodward for several years, and they had several public shelters. This is unacceptable for the tornado activity in this area (metro). So, if they could double the reason for having the shelters, it would help a lot.

It's amazing the loss of life was as little as it was.

Excellent point - school shelters would double as community shelters when school is out. .

 

[mksmth]

i have done a lot of work for schools around tulsa as a subcontractor. I see architects/engineers way over spec the "pretty" stuff in these schools. I did one last summer in Bixby that had 5-$3,000.00 per each pendant lights in a library for elementary kids. I did one in BA that had 15k in fancy LED lights that only come on at night when no one is there, in a window that only the neighbors can see. Also an elementary.

Tulsa just passed a 38 million dollar bond issue to upgrade safety and technology. New fire and security alarms. Thats great right. Well the only problem is, and I have seen this in years past, they spec out one type of fire and security system locking in a manufacture and in most all cases an installer. If you dont think that gets marked up beyond control, um ya it does.

There is an Architect/Engineer here that does a lot of school work. They will only allow a certain manufacture of light fixtures to furnish the lights. Well that also locks in 1 Manufactures Rep and 1 electrical supply house who can buy from that rep. You dont think that each time that quote crosses a desk it doesnt get marked up 20,30,40, 100 hell who know what % at each stop before it gets to the contractor and then on to the owner, well it does.

I guess what Im saying is the districts could and can find the money if they would just open their eyes and trim the fat. Sure they are getting bonds approved but someone else is spending it.

 

[Erick]

Some people say they should have kids stay home on potential storm days, and have a parent stay home as well. Well, that would be great if you had a shelter in your house. You have higher chance of loss of life in a house with no shelter than in a school with no shelter.

A big issue we have is there are next to no public shelters in place. If in fact they did put in shelters in schools, they could be used as public shelters which is badly needed. I lived in Woodward for several years, and they had several public shelters. This is unacceptable for the tornado activity in this area (metro). So, if they could double the reason for having the shelters, it would help a lot.

It's amazing the loss of life was as little as it was.

I think the first focus needs to be on getting shelters in homes, then work on closing school. This would only work if the first priority of in-home shelters was achieved. The problem I see with using the school shelters as public shelters is that they would fill up immediately and people that would rely on them would be sent away. That's why I believe there has been a decline in public shelters. If they could be built big enough, it would work but they would have to be incredibly large.


Here is my math off the cuff. We'll just say that one shelter that is 50x50 costs $1 million. (Not actual numbers but probably not a stretch either way. That is a 2,500 SF building that would have a pretty low occupancy number, far below 1,000 I am guessing. Even if you stacked one person every SF you could only get 2,500 people in there.

That same $1 million could provide about 400 6-person shelters. That is enough for 2,400 people if each was filled. The below ground garage shelters could also be lined up in a designated neighborhood area but it makes more sence to be to put them at each residence.

 

[Erick]

i have done a lot of work for schools around tulsa as a subcontractor. I see architects/engineers way over spec the "pretty" stuff in these schools. I did one last summer in Bixby that had 5-$3,000.00 per each pendant lights in a library for elementary kids. I did one in BA that had 15k in fancy LED lights that only come on at night when no one is there, in a window that only the neighbors can see. Also an elementary.

Tulsa just passed a 38 million dollar bond issue to upgrade safety and technology. New fire and security alarms. Thats great right. Well the only problem is, and I have seen this in years past, they spec out one type of fire and security system locking in a manufacture and in most all cases an installer. If you dont think that gets marked up beyond control, um ya it does.

There is an Architect/Engineer here that does a lot of school work. They will only allow a certain manufacture of light fixtures to furnish the lights. Well that also locks in 1 Manufactures Rep and 1 electrical supply house who can buy from that rep. You dont think that each time that quote crosses a desk it doesnt get marked up 20,30,40 hell who know what % before it gets to the contractor and then on to the owner, well it does.

I guess what Im saying is the districts could and can find the money if they would just open their eyes and trim the fat. Sure they are getting bonds approved but someone else is spending it.

I had this discussion as well. It could be time to start eliminating the aesthetic luxuries for necessities. You are right, there is entirely too much construction dollar wasted on specialty items.

 

[Devilsbcoach]

Some people say they should have kids stay home on potential storm days, and have a parent stay home as well. Well, that would be great if you had a shelter in your house. You have higher chance of loss of life in a house with no shelter than in a school with no shelter.

Also, during the press conference today, they confirmed no kids drowned, they were all trapped in rubble and were not able to breathe. Horrifying fact, but that was confirmed today by the M.E. at the press conference.

A big issue we have is there are next to no public shelters in place. If in fact they did put in shelters in schools, they could be used as public shelters which is badly needed. I lived in Woodward for several years, and they had several public shelters. This is unacceptable for the tornado activity in this area (metro). So, if they could double the reason for having the shelters, it would help a lot.

It's amazing the loss of life was as little as it was.

This is a good point ----in theory. Our school has a section of the elementary that is underground. This serves as a shelter for the school and is open to the public. The problem arises when a storm is in the immediate area while school is in session. The "public" scurries to the underground filling up the parking lot and the shelter. By the time the kids get there that had to be bused across campus from the JH and HS (it's a couple of blocks), there is nowhere to park and unload the kids and no more room in the shelter. We have tornado drills (timed) 3 or 4 times a year and we always have a quick load, bus, unload time. However, this is done when the parking lot and shelter are both empty so there are no vehicles or other people there to slow the process.

 

[Cinaet]

It used to be the norm, not because it was required but by choice/necessity/lack of alternative. Not perfect or the best but you have to wonder how many they saved.

They served double duty, especially out in the country, as hidey holes and root cellars.

 

[AKguy1985]

I remember tiawah school having a tornado shelter. But its not that big considering the school has grown alot since i was there.

 

[dutchwrangler]

Build a shelter in your backyard and home school. Probably not realistic with wives needing to work to help out the husband in order to survive as a result of government driving the cost of living with all their imposed regulations and mandates.

Of course many couples have their priorities backwards as they seek to keep up with the Joneses and place themselves in a financial bind requiring both to work and thus abdicating the education of their children to the government education prisons who eventually turns those children into socialist zombies.

Reap and sow...

 

[twoguns?]

Not necessarily. As a Structural Engineer, I've designed several FEMA 361 compliant safe rooms that would have structurally withstood the 200+ mph winds. FEMA 361 document requires that you design for 250 mph winds which are on the extreme high side of an EF-5 tornado.

The problem is that, I do not design the window and door closures and attachment to my structure. Therefore, if one of the windows or doors get sucked off the building that I designed is now experiencing loads and pressures that it was not designed for. However, if all components are designed to the FEMA 361 standards, it will stand through a tornado like this one.

Like I said ...underground
Reason...cost,
unless vented properly the doors Will collapse, at best your going to be in a total vacuum for ...i dont know , 30-45 sec's or longer, but the structure will stay intact
And :Cost, what does one of these FEMA 361 (with hardware/doors..Complete) cost ,at what dimensions, that will withstand an F5


.and as my co-worker says" herein lies "the rub" "