VA tried to take vets gun.

[Shadowrider]

Yeah, semantics. Ok.

The VA is not deciding whether or not vets can continue to purchase guns or not. They are complying with public law that requires them to report certain individuals to NICS based on determinations of mental competence (that determination does not revolve around competence with firearms at all), as all federal agencies are required to do.

The problem (yes, there is a problem and I never said it wasn't a big deal) is the standards being used to determine competence and the due process afforded those facing that determination (there is due process, but it's not very thorough). The letters are real, but they say nothing about the VA taking guns. They advise the veteran that whatever claim they are filing could result in a determination of mental incompetence, which could in-turn affect their ability to purchase firearms. Period. I've received one myself.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand...or why it's hard to understand that untruthful articles about "VA gun confiscation has started in Idaho" and armed standoffs with non-existent VA gun grabbers doesn't really help.

Instead of writing our congressmen reasoned, articulate letters explain the real problem, or sending money to veterans advocate groups, we react to click bait articles of some podunk sheriff standing in front of a vets house to protect him from a gun grab that was never going to happen in the first place. We beat our chests, yell 'Merica, and go back to looking at titties on TV.

How many times have any of you written your congressman or taken any other grassroots action on this issue since the stories and mystery letters started flying around 5 years ago (or more)?

SMS you might want to read this, it has very poignant questions in it that you really ought to read. I'm fairly certain that a sitting US Senator didn't fall victim to clickbait...

Sentor Grassley letter to Eric Holder

 

[SMS]

Senator Grassley's letter is exactly the kind of action that needs to be taken, and discussed. That's been my point this entire time and I echoed the points of his letter in this very thread, and others over the years here.

I've communicated as much to my reps, and others, for a while now.

Notice the good Senator's letter has nothing to do with VA JBTs showing up at veteran's homes to inspect for or seize firearms?

 

[Glocktogo]

Yeah, semantics. Ok.

The VA is not deciding whether or not vets can continue to purchase guns or not. They are complying with public law that requires them to report certain individuals to NICS based on determinations of mental competence (that determination does not revolve around competence with firearms at all), as all federal agencies are required to do.

The problem (yes, there is a problem and I never said it wasn't a big deal) is the standards being used to determine competence and the due process afforded those facing that determination (there is due process, but it's not very thorough). The letters are real, but they say nothing about the VA taking guns. They advise the veteran that whatever claim they are filing could result in a determination of mental incompetence, which could in-turn affect their ability to purchase firearms. Period. I've received one myself.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand...or why it's hard to understand that untruthful articles about "VA gun confiscation has started in Idaho" and armed standoffs with non-existent VA gun grabbers doesn't really help.

Instead of writing our congressmen reasoned, articulate letters explain the real problem, or sending money to veterans advocate groups, we react to click bait articles of some podunk sheriff standing in front of a vets house to protect him from a gun grab that was never going to happen in the first place. We beat our chests, yell 'Merica, and go back to looking at titties on TV.

How many times have any of you written your congressman or taken any other grassroots action on this issue since the stories and mystery letters started flying around 5 years ago (or more)?

As to the bolded above, yes it's a problem, yes it's a big deal and yes it's wrong.

I have written those letters to my elected officials. I've explained how the VA has their own attorneys, their own judges (ALJ's) and their own completely internal system. That system is not set up to reasonably or effectively adjudicate anything beyond veteran's benefits. Period!

Have you spoken to a VA ALJ about this issue? Because I actually have. He agreed that this is the wrong venue in which to make a determination on whether a veteran should have their 2nd Amendment rights rescinded. I don't care what you say, placing a veteran on the NICS prohibited list IS infringement on their 2nd Amendment rights. You will not win that argument.

Now I don't have a problem with a process for the VA to refer a veteran who's been adjudicated mentally incompetent within their system for benefits purposes, to a fair and impartial court with full due process on determining constitutional rights restrictions.

Simply put, the VA is scaring vets who truly need help with the threat of stripping their rights in exchange for said help. Short of the IRS, the VA is probably the most flawed government administration today. No one should be comfortable with those clowns administering a process that intertwines removal of constitutional rights with providing services and benefits to our veterans. It's an extreme disservice to our vets.

You're correct that the "VA police" aren't going out doing gun confiscations. You're wrong if you try to say that state and federal agencies aren't. You're wrong if you say that those VA NICS notifications can't result in confiscations, because the State of California employs a special unit to compare registered firearms owners against that list and they make house calls.

You're correct that there's some hyperbole in this thread. You're not entirely free of it yourself though. You can have your own opinions, but not your own set of facts.

 

[sanjuro893]

Yeah, semantics. Ok.

The VA is not deciding whether or not vets can continue to purchase guns or not. They are complying with public law that requires them to report certain individuals to NICS based on determinations of mental competence (that determination does not revolve around competence with firearms at all), as all federal agencies are required to do.

The problem (yes, there is a problem and I never said it wasn't a big deal) is the standards being used to determine competence and the due process afforded those facing that determination (there is due process, but it's not very thorough). The letters are real, but they say nothing about the VA taking guns. They advise the veteran that whatever claim they are filing could result in a determination of mental incompetence, which could in-turn affect their ability to purchase firearms. Period. I've received one myself.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand...or why it's hard to understand that untruthful articles about "VA gun confiscation has started in Idaho" and armed standoffs with non-existent VA gun grabbers doesn't really help.

Instead of writing our congressmen reasoned, articulate letters explain the real problem, or sending money to veterans advocate groups, we react to click bait articles of some podunk sheriff standing in front of a vets house to protect him from a gun grab that was never going to happen in the first place. We beat our chests, yell 'Merica, and go back to looking at titties on TV.

How many times have any of you written your congressman or taken any other grassroots action on this issue since the stories and mystery letters started flying around 5 years ago (or more)?

In reference to your "challenge" to produce the letter...
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/0...nked-somewhat/screenhunter_1265-feb-25-14-04/

I wrote this long drawn out crap, but you know, you're right. The VA is not going around rounding up guns. But through fediciary incompetence and without due process, they are helping vets lose their rights to the 2nd amendment. They may be just "obeying the law" by reporting them to NICS but not being able to handle your finances should not be a disqualification of your 2nd amendment rights. This is an Obama back door gun control program. His admin announced they were going to start doing this, everybody knows it. It's screwed up, it's wrong and yes, I've written both my state and fed reps about it.

 

[sanjuro893]

As to the bolded above, yes it's a problem, yes it's a big deal and yes it's wrong.

I have written those letters to my elected officials. I've explained how the VA has their own attorneys, their own judges (ALJ's) and their own completely internal system. That system is not set up to reasonably or effectively adjudicate anything beyond veteran's benefits. Period!

Have you spoken to a VA ALJ about this issue? Because I actually have. He agreed that this is the wrong venue in which to make a determination on whether a veteran should have their 2nd Amendment rights rescinded. I don't care what you say, placing a veteran on the NICS prohibited list IS infringement on their 2nd Amendment rights. You will not win that argument.

Now I don't have a problem with a process for the VA to refer a veteran who's been adjudicated mentally incompetent within their system for benefits purposes, to a fair and impartial court with full due process on determining constitutional rights restrictions.

Simply put, the VA is scaring vets who truly need help with the threat of stripping their rights in exchange for said help. Short of the IRS, the VA is probably the most flawed government administration today. No one should be comfortable with those clowns administering a process that intertwines removal of constitutional rights with providing services and benefits to our veterans. It's an extreme disservice to our vets.

You're correct that the "VA police" aren't going out doing gun confiscations. You're wrong if you try to say that state and federal agencies aren't. You're wrong if you say that those VA NICS notifications can't result in confiscations, because the State of California employs a special unit to compare registered firearms owners against that list and they make house calls.

You're correct that there's some hyperbole in this thread. You're not entirely free of it yourself though. You can have your own opinions, but not your own set of facts.

Thank you! And yes, SMS, you are CORRECT that the VA themselves are not going around confiscating guns from vets..... (they're just helping it happen)