Warrantless search - Rogers County

[chriswilmot72]

I'm organizing my thoughts on how to proceed, and I welcome any input in organizing my thoughts.

1) My ultimate goal for any action is that the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. I want my son and everyone else to go peacably about their business secure against capricious search and battery upon their persons.

To that end I want the Rogers County Sheriff's Department spanked for violating my son's person. How best to proceed?

Supporting facts:
1) The brake lights are and were in fact functioning, negating the stated reason for his stop.
2) Any LEOs can help me out here: do you normally perform a "taillight" stop with three vehicles and a dog?
3) In a "tailight" stop do you normally pull the driver out, search him, handcuff him, and place him in the police vehicle?
4) Stated reason for the search of his person and vehicle was "smelling weed." As there was no weed found nor confiscated, this reason is tenuous at best and certainly bears the appearance of a blanket excuse to violate his person and effects.
5) Questioning him for what could be a felony suspicion without advising him of his rights probably violates Miranda (more research needed.)
6) There was no marijuana, nor any reasonable suspicion of marijuana.
7) Is the mere presence of (a suspicion of) marijuana grounds for a warrantless search? (More research needed.)

How old is your son?

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

*If an officer can make up PC to search ____ and the subject fights the unjust pretext at a level (where the officer can say they were scared) then they'll be covered by qualified immunity and protected and any blame is placed on the person....

In the first place, that's not what I said. Fictitious PC was not what I was talking about and you know that. Furthermore, the place to resist is not on the side of the road if you think you're being wronged by an officer as distasteful as that may be. You'll have your chance to share your version of events in court.

Lots of people think if they just yell and scream and carry on during a LE contact that makes them right. It doesn't. It's just more of that stupidity that so many people seem to want to put on display.

And qualified immunity doesn't protect an officer against civil suits...especially in a 1983 action...for depriving a person of their civil rights.

 

[okcBob]

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/05/01/federal-judge-has-serious/
unsure about OK drug dogs - unknown if they go through “double-blind training”, but Utah has problems…

 

[tweetr]

How old is your son?

20.
Yes, this will have to be his cause to pursue.
I am still his father, and a citizen, and a Constitutional purist. I am livid.

 

[Rez Exelon]

In the first place, that's not what I said. Fictitious PC was not what I was talking about and you know that. Furthermore, the place to resist is not on the side of the road if you think you're being wronged by an officer as distasteful as that may be. You'll have your chance to share your version of events in court.

Lots of people think if they just yell and scream and carry on during a LE contact that makes them right. It doesn't. It's just more of that stupidity that so many people seem to want to put on display.

And qualified immunity doesn't protect an officer against civil suits...especially in a 1983 action...for depriving a person of their civil rights.

I didn't say you said that. I shared my interpretation of what would be more accurate.

Hypothetical: Let's say I was an LEO and I stopped you with BS PC. Then you get combative and I arrest you. Sure you can get your day in court after the arrest going on your record. The cost of a lawyer, bail, court costs. Possibly lost wages or lost employment in some cases. Sure you might even win, but at what cost. There are very real costs for the fight and I as the LEO might just get to walk away or a stern talking to about not doing that again. Maybe I get fired and have to go to a different department.

Or there is always the classic prosecution for "resisting arrest" which courts have ruled to be enforceable even if the initial reason for the stop was ruled invalid or unconsititutional. So maybe I could have, in this hypothetical, just looked for the slightest justification to use that and not even charge anything else. Then there's all the same costs and records issues etc and the initial subject matter wouldn't even need to be ruled on.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

And I have news for some of you... Cops aren't the only ones that make s**t up. Pretty much anyone is capable of doing it whether they're a witness, a complainant, a suspect, etc...

I got sued for $17M for excessive force in 2001. Kid got mad because I arrested him for DUI. He smacked his forehead against the cage in my car and put a 3 cm cut on his forehead. He claimed I caused the injury. In his complaint he initially said I slammed on the brakes and that caused him to hit his head. Well, the GPS data refuted that. Then he said it was his hand. No injury or bruising present on my hand which surely would've been there. Then he said it was my nightstick. Didn't carry one. Then he said it was my very large "police" flashlight. I carried a small, plastic Surefire light. Finally he changed his story to the butt of my gun. Then he hired an expert witness to testify that his injury was perfectly consistent with being struck with the butt of a gun, specifically a Glock. More specifically a Glock 19. He was certain of it. Except I carried a S&W 4006. Mom and dad were/are scumbags and convicted felons. Mom had a history of suing the county...unsuccessfully.

I was cleared by an FBI investigation but still spent 7 days on trial in federal court in Denver. It took the jury less than15 mins to say there was no possible way I did what this kid claimed. The young man got a lesson in lying...$440,000 in legal and other costs. And that was just for my side. No telling what his ambulance-chasing lawyer soaked him for. I hope he's enjoying paying off that lifelong debt.

So spare me the sob stories about how the mean, bad average cops are always lying, shooting people, planting evidence etc. Most cops, average cops, despise the bad ones for the same reasons the average gun owners hates the type of person that gives gun owners a bad name. These people were ready to basically ruin my life because their son was drunk and stupid.

In my experience the average person lies to LE far more often than the average LEO lies to the average person. Not even close.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

I didn't say you said that. I shared my interpretation of what would be more accurate.

Hypothetical: Let's say I was an LEO and I stopped you with BS PC. Then you get combative and I arrest you. Sure you can get your day in court after the arrest going on your record. The cost of a lawyer, bail, court costs. Possibly lost wages or lost employment in some cases. Sure you might even win, but at what cost. There are very real costs for the fight and I as the LEO might just get to walk away or a stern talking to about not doing that again. Maybe I get fired and have to go to a different department.

Or there is always the classic prosecution for "resisting arrest" which courts have ruled to be enforceable even if the initial reason for the stop was ruled invalid or unconsititutional. So maybe I could have, in this hypothetical, just looked for the slightest justification to use that and not even charge anything else. Then there's all the same costs and records issues etc and the initial subject matter wouldn't even need to be ruled on.

Fine. But the resisting arrest issue over an illegal stop only applies if the officer was acting in good faith. If it can be shown it was otherwise, the officer isn't immune from various sorts of punishment.

 

[TedKennedy]

There are "bad cops" just like there are bad truck drivers, bad welders, bad IT employees, and bad gun owners. Lumping all of anything as a group is like was said above, stupid.

And yet the taxpayer at large doesn't finance the result of bad IT guys or welders.

 

[OK Corgi Rancher]

And yet the taxpayer at large doesn't finance the result of bad IT guys or welders.

They do if they're government employees... And Lord knows there are plenty of them.

 

[TedKennedy]

They do if they're government employees... And Lord knows there are plenty of them.

Too many.