Which KNS Pins?

[264Magnum]

Well that's probably fair - so what is the point of having KNS pins then? I thought it had to do with preventing the pins from rotating and screwing up the lower and that it had little to do with the trigger (other than fit). Is that wrong?

I also thought that the reason 99% of AR owners never experienced this problem was that that same 99% never used their rifles beyond a few thousand rounds.

My plans aren't to jump into competing, but if I end up really liking it, then I could see me shooting as many as 5,000 or so rounds through it over the course of the next year or two and I assume that once I get into it - it only goes up from there.

You're correct, they're supposed to prevent the pins from buggering up the lower. But look at how many M16s are out there that probably have the same pins they left the factory with.

 

[KurtM]

If you notice the stock pins have a small detent grove cut in them. If you chuck them up in a drill and take your dremel with a cut-off wheel (which happens to be the exact width of the spring that goes into the detent groove) and slightly deepen the groove in the pin, it WILL NEVER WALK!

This takes about 5 minutes to do from starting with the drill empty and the dremel empty and the cut-off wheel installed on the shaft ready to be installed in the Dremel, and the pins sitting on the work bench. So.... for $25.00 for 5 minutes work that works out to be $300.00 dollars an hour that you are "making" or saving. and once again IT WILL NEVER WALK....ever, ever,ever!

Before you make your trigger decision, why don't you show up to the 3-gun match on the 30th and you are welcome to try My rifle and several different trigger set-ups. It makes no sense to me to buy the stock parts that you will probably be replacing with better parts as soon as you start shooting more, but hey if you like having boxes of extra parts.....cool. KurtM

 

[KurtM]

BTW J.P. oversized pins are $9.95 a set and they will NEVER rotate just like the $32.00 dollar set you are looking at. KurtM

 

[ez bake]

If you notice the stock pins have a small detent grove cut in them. If you chuck them up in a drill and take your dremel with a cut-off wheel (which happens to be the exact width of the spring that goes into the detent groove) and slightly deepen the groove in the pin, it WILL NEVER WALK!

This takes about 5 minutes to do from starting with the drill empty and the dremel empty and the cut-off wheel installed on the shaft ready to be installed in the Dremel, and the pins sitting on the work bench. So.... for $25.00 for 5 minutes work that works out to be $300.00 dollars an hour that you are "making" or saving. and once again IT WILL NEVER WALK....ever, ever,ever!

Before you make your trigger decision, why don't you show up to the 3-gun match on the 30th and you are welcome to try My rifle and several different trigger set-ups. It makes no sense to me to buy the stock parts that you will probably be replacing with better parts as soon as you start shooting more, but hey if you like having boxes of extra parts.....cool. KurtM

Well, my biggest concern with a trigger is that the one I'd like to get is a Timney, which is out of the budget for a while - even a RRA 2-stage is probably out of the budget for a bit longer, and I don't know that I'd ever bee happy with it from what I've experienced with friend's builds. Pretty much anything aside from those two just starts to get more and more expensive.

If it was a quality issue that prevented function, or would possibly fail under use, I'd definitely spend the extra money (that was the whole reason for going with the KNS pins), but I just can't swing spending the money on a trigger for now, so I'd like to wait until I can get what I want before I do. If the KNS pins aren't totally necessary, but will prevent a possible failure, then its money well spent. I like the JPE stuff, but aren't their pins over-sized tooled-steel pins crammed into a smaller aluminum opening? For some reason, that scares me.

I did look at their In-House special for the complete JP Fire Control Package, which seems economically reasonable, but still out of the budget for a while (I'm planning on spending some money on gunsmithing for my son's 700 build since I got the final few parts for it, I'm trying to get another scope for my AR and I'd like to get a LaRue QD mount for it so I can switch back and forth from longer-hunting-mode to hog-hunting / match-mode, and I'm still trying to get started on reloading - having a family of little shooters is cool, but expensive at times ).

 

[264Magnum]

Have you thought about sending your parts to Bill Springfield for a 3lb trigger job?

 

[ez bake]

Have you thought about sending your parts to Bill Springfield for a 3lb trigger job?

As a matter of fact, I had, or even not ordering the DD Parts kit and just getting one of Bill's since its only a few bucks more than the DD LPK, but its still a 10 cent trigger only with some work done (plus the same anti-rotation pins would still fit right?) and again, I didn't have much issue with the stock trigger.

I don't know - this whole competition world is new to me - I definitely learn plenty from Kurt and the other competitors on here (and I'm grateful for all the advice), but my rig is sometimes the last thing to get upgraded with everything else going on around my house So I'm not 100% sure about upgrading the trigger or absolutely needing the KNS pins (or JP pins), but I'd like to get the lower ready to compete the first time (even if just at a bare minimum).

 

[doctorjj]

Well that's probably fair - so what is the point of having KNS pins then? I thought it had to do with preventing the pins from rotating and screwing up the lower and that it had little to do with the trigger (other than fit). Is that wrong?

I also thought that the reason 99% of AR owners never experienced this problem was that that same 99% never used their rifles beyond a few thousand rounds.

My plans aren't to jump into competing, but if I end up really liking it, then I could see me shooting as many as 5,000 or so rounds through it over the course of the next year or two and I assume that once I get into it - it only goes up from there.

I look at the aftermarket pins, especially the JP pins as being better able to control the point of rotation of the trigger and hammer and therefore give a more precise and consistent feel to the trigger.

 

[KurtM]

I hear ya on "little shooters" thing. Got 3 10 year olds, that love to shoot.

 

[ez bake]

OK I just finished watching JPE's 3 videos about installing their fire-control group and I think that it might be a bit outside of what I'd like to do (and honestly, almost as expensive as a drop-in trigger of any decent quality).

Aside from the fact that for $180 + $30 for the remaining lower parts - which is above what I really wanted to spend right now, there's either the cost of having a smith install the parts (and tune the Sear and rear safety-pad) or the risk of screwing it up myself - and when it comes to removing material, I'd be better served by leaving that up to the experts.

I just about half-way convinced myself that I could give up on something and/or sell something to get it together, but I think I'm going to chicken out and order a Bill Springfield kit (I was convinced to at least upgrade the trigger by this thread).

I appreciate everyone's input on it, but I just don't think I can swing anything better for now.

 

[adluginb]

I sent two of my triggers to Bill and I was amazed at the difference after they came back. Only took 5 days to get them back.