Why are Oklahoma's roads so crappy?

[dennishoddy]

The aggregate is whatever is near by to harvest. Interstates are no difference in pavement design other than consideration for % trucks.

I thought it came from Quarry's where it can be crushed to what ever size is ordered?

The grade of asphalt Oklahoma uses is K if my sources are correct. . The bottom of the barrel as far as asphalt grades are concerned.

Other states use a higher mix of Bitumen to obtain a higher grade of road surface?

I have driven Ks Hwy 166 from Arkansas city to Joplin Mo for 20 some years. There is not a single pot hole on that road or any evidence of a patch. Its also mostly a light tan to white. Great drivability at night. Oklahoma black roads get pot holes patched within months of installation.

Why can't Oklahoma mimic what our neighbors do?

 

[CHenry]

I thought it came from Quarry's where it can be crushed to what ever size is ordered?

The grade of asphalt Oklahoma uses is K if my sources are correct. . The bottom of the barrel as far as asphalt grades are concerned.

Other states use a higher mix of Bitumen to obtain a higher grade of road surface?

I have driven Ks Hwy 166 from Arkansas city to Joplin Mo for 20 some years. There is not a single pot hole on that road or any evidence of a patch. Its also mostly a light tan to white. Great drivability at night. Oklahoma black roads get pot holes patched within months of installation.

Why can't Oklahoma mimic what our neighbors do?

I can't answer that. I'm not a materials guy or pavement design guy. BUT I do know asphalt is not judged purely by the large aggregate. The binders and placement temp. Are keys.

 

[dennishoddy]

I can't answer that. I'm not a materials guy or pavement design guy. BUT I do know asphalt is not judged purely by the large aggregate. The binders and placement temp. Are keys.

Your correct. Binders being the key.

Our asphalt company in town has a couple of towers. I'm assuming they are fractionating towers that produce a petroleum pitch. That would give the black road, and inferior wear factor that comes with it.

Bitumen is also sometimes confused with petroleum pitch which, although also derived from crude oil, is a substance produced by a different process from that used for refined bitumen. Petroleum pitches are the residues from the extreme heat treatment or “cracking” of petroleum fractions. Their properties and chemical composition are therefore quite different from those of bitumen.

I'm also assuming Oklahoma is using the Petroleum pitch vs road construction material using Bitumen that our neighbors do on their roads.

Somewhere in some regulation, rule, standard, this is why our roads suck.

The only way we can fix our roads, is to change the grade of asphalt that is currently used.

If it takes lobbying the legislature, we have to find the reg/rule that has put us in this position of the worst roads in the US.

 

[CHenry]

I'll have to look at the materials standards for our "Super pave" asphalt. Until then, I can not say.

 

[dennishoddy]

Cool.

 

[CHenry]

I have driven Ks Hwy 166 from Arkansas city to Joplin Mo for 20 some years. There is not a single pot hole on that road or any evidence of a patch. Its also mostly a light tan to white. Great drivability at night.
?

In the mean time, tell me these key factors. What is the ADT on this road? The K factor? The surface thickness and subbase material/thickness.

 

[dennishoddy]

In the mean time, tell me these key factors. What is the ADT on this road? The K factor? The surface thickness and subbase material/thickness.

I don't have those numbers but I'll bet http://www.apac-ksmo.com/kansas-asphalt.html Does.

Also the fact that HWY 166 is as old as it is without any potholes speaks for itself.

There is a serious problem with Oklahoma road construction, and IMHO it has to do with the quality of the road construction material.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but trying to find out the facts about why Oklahoma has the worst roads in our region, and if we can find out its the construction material, what to do to bring our state roads up to the standards that other states enjoy.

 

[CHenry]

I don't have those numbers but I'll bet http://www.apac-ksmo.com/kansas-asphalt.html Does.

Also the fact that HWY 166 is as old as it is without any potholes speaks for itself.

No that really means absolutely nothing. My gravel (4" thick) drive is in top condition for its age. Its ADT is 2 vehicles a day, O trucks and its layed on my topsoil base. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it in the over all picture. Traffic volume and weight has everything to do with it.
I'm not a proponent of ashphalt first off all. It has a 10 year design life in OK but they argue its cheap to mill and fill and they are right.
Concrete however. Let me tell you some oklahoma highway facts. Interstate 44 just north and south of Interstate 40 in OKC is the highest volume road in the state with (and these are old numbers) roughly 300,000 cars a day. It has IIRC 25% trucks (25% of 300k) and it is concrete that was placed (concrete is never poured) in 1974-75 and its condition is very good for the age. Are you familiar with this pavement? Its quite a testimony to ODOTs work for a 40 yo road.
US 69 south of muskogee was 60-65 yo before we replaced it and it was in outstanding shape at that time 4-7 years ago.
I bet if you travel much at all you have driven over one of many bridges that are close to 90 years old. While structurally obsolete because of their narrow width, they still hold up a 80k pound semi. There are no load posted bridges left in OK that I am aware of on the State system because we replaced 126 of them (all of them) in 2001. (all in one year).
Those are some facts.
Now I have an episode of breaking bad to watch with my wife and I'll check back on this later.
Cheers.

 

[dennishoddy]

I'm only talking about state highway. Your asphalt drive and mine have nothing to do with why Oklahoma roads are the worst in the region.
I'm not talking about concrete, although before milling, 412 between I35 and Tulsa was rough enough to make me stop more than once to check to see if I had a loose bearing on a trailer. Its not bad now.

The grade of asphalt compared to our neighbors seems to be the issue, staying with the OP.

 

[CHenry]

One more quick fact while the popcorn is going.
I-40 from east to west in OK is the one road most ***** about...well as is I-35.
To reconstruct one mile of I-40, both sides, 38' wide pavement x 2 sides is roughly 4.5 million per miles. There are 331 miles of I-40 in OK. thats near $1.5 billion and Im not sure about out west of El Reno but its all new east of there to AR other than a 6 mile section at Henrietta and the section in Yukon that is currently being rebuilt. That all took place in less than 10 years too.
I-35 south of OKC used to be a joke and most of it is new and smooth as a babies ass now as well.
You see ODOT has made leaps and bounds in recovering our failed infrastructure just in the last 10-15 years but no one really is talking about the positives. And honestly, it pisses me off.

Piece out.