Why you shouldn't argue when you've been caught carrying in a posted business...

[Ace_on_the_Turn]

One could reasonably assume that they developed probable cause to perform the search. If not, then the search wouldn't hold up in court. Developing reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has occurred or is about to occur to detain a person, who caused another person to be fearful, isn't all that difficult.

FTFY. While the 4th has been all but gutted, the popo still have to at least act like they are following the law.

He wrote, "However his actions when they arrived and the subsequent search of his person after detainment and arrest revealing the white powdery substance"

He said they found the white powdery substance after they arrested him. Maybe he's just getting the timing wrong.

 

[Glocktogo]

FTFY. While the 4th has been all but gutted, the popo still have to at least act like they are following the law.

He wrote, "However his actions when they arrived and the subsequent search of his person after detainment and arrest revealing the white powdery substance"

He said they found the white powdery substance after they arrested him. Maybe he's just getting the timing wrong.

Lots of people do. Also, PC for an arrest or RAS for detainment may have been for something entirely different from the substance discovered. We'll never know.

 

[okie362]

Ace....Sorry but I have no time to play with you today. Take care of it yourself as usual and have a most blessed day. Thank you for your time.

 

[Frederick]

I work in a place where it is posted. My bosses know how I feel about it, nevertheless, they're the bosses and that's why I have to figure out other means of safety and defense when I'm here. I'm coming up on 18 years here and so far, I'd say I've done that pretty well. Every now and then, a person ignores the sign and comes in, the piece gets spotted and I get the task of telling them to leave it in their vehicle. 99.9% of the time I get "sure thing! no problem! I just didn't see it" and it's no big deal and for those of you who have politely complied with those businesses, I thank you. A few times, on the way to their car, I get the "but what would you do if..." or "but it's not safe" line of questioning and in those cases I explain that I agree with them, I'm on their side when it comes to 2A issues but rules are rules and sometimes we're forced to find other means of defense. (Which there are. A gun is merely a force multiplier) In the past 2 months, I've had 2 times where some individuals came in carrying, I approached them and gave them my spiel about needing to leave it in their locked vehicle and instead of cooperation or even a polite line of questioning, I got: "what will you do if I don't?" and "If you don't carry a gun, how will you make me?" I won't say where that went but let's just say I "made them" and now they're banned until the sun burns out. Guys and Gals, this is NOT WHAT TO DO and is certainly NOT HELPING OUR CAUSE. Now you can argue property rights vs 2A rights all you want and I can sympathize with both sides. Nevertheless, if it's somebody's unwanted task to ask you to remove your firearm from their property and they've been completely polite and understanding about it, please don't make statements that can be construed as threatening or belligerent. Definitely don't bow up and get stupid. The simple presence of a firearm on your person doesn't mean they will back down and many have had sufficient training and experience in taking it away from you. I understand why some of you disregard the signs (I've done it myself) but there's no reason you can't be courteous when breaking the rules. Most importantly, please remember that people still have to enforce those rules and even if there's no real bad intent on your part, somebody could get seriously hurt because of the point you're trying to make and it's simply not worth it.

I concealed carry, but if someone noticed and told me to leave, i would do so and never come back.

"what will you do if I don't?" and "If you don't carry a gun, how will you make me?"

Some idiots should just not own firearms.

The simple presence of a firearm on your person doesn't mean they will back down and many have had sufficient training and experience in taking it away from you.

That's not the way to go. If an individual refuses to remove his firearm from his person, or issues stupid threats, just back down and call the police. Is there a chance you could successfully disarm an individual? Sure. There's also a chance you'll provoke a situation with someone who is obviously not the smartest branch on the tree. It's a lot quicker to squeeze a trigger than it is to grab a firearm from someone, there is no point in risking your life. Just back down, call the police, and let them handle it.

Never try to start a fight with someone with a gun unless your life or others lives depends on it. Bravado will get you killed, especially if his gun is already drawn or you're unarmed yourself.

Having said that, such threats do more to harm our cause than good, as you noted. But such idiots don't have the intelligence to think that far ahead. If someone has that poor judgment, doubly the reason not to try to get into a fight with them when they're carrying a gun.

 

[sanjuro893]

I concealed carry, but if someone noticed and told me to leave, i would do so and never come back.



Some idiots should just not own firearms.




That's not the way to go. If an individual refuses to remove his firearm from his person, or issues stupid threats, just back down and call the police. Is there a chance you could successfully disarm an individual? Sure. There's also a chance you'll provoke a situation with someone who is obviously not the smartest branch on the tree. It's a lot quicker to squeeze a trigger than it is to grab a firearm from someone, there is no point in risking your life. Just back down, call the police, and let them handle it.


Never try to start a fight with someone with a gun unless your life or others lives depends on it. Bravado will get you killed, especially if his gun is already drawn or you're unarmed yourself.




Having said that, such threats do more to harm our cause than good, as you noted. But such idiots don't have the intelligence to think that far ahead. If someone has that poor judgment, doubly the reason not to try to get into a fight with them when they're carrying a gun.

That's good advice and I should heed it. I'm pretty unemotional (except in downtown traffic on Thunder game day) but there are some situations (like this one) where my blood gets up also and I'm not exactly thinking of the safest solution. I've known some of the people I work with for 18 yrs. I'm godfather to some of their kids, watched them grow up, get married, etc. When somebody is threatening people you hold dear like that, it's hard to completely take emotion out of it and not just react.... and they were such DICKS, too!!

Still.... you're right.

 

[Fredkrueger100]

I would just say ok and never come there again. But I sure wouldn't argue about it. If a business is dumb enough to keep law abiding citizens from defending themselves and possibly their workers then so be it. I don't need to shop there. But I am good enough at concealing that they won't ever catch me. How many places do you see getting robbed that have pro gun signs on the door? My guess is none. That outta be a good enough "hint" for business' stupid rules not making a difference. Actually believing that having a no gun sign makes their business safer. They can keep living with that delusion.