At what point are you justified 2 use force?

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918evo

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I get what you are saying and I agree it is not completely black and white, but this isn't someone going through a neighborhood and shooting out windows with a BB gun, this is someone breaking a driver's side door glass out of anger in a vehicle they know is occupied. His hand forcibly entered the vehicle.
 

AKguy1985

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I get what you are saying and I agree it is not completely black and white, but this isn't someone going through a neighborhood and shooting out windows with a BB gun, this is someone breaking a driver's side door glass out of anger in a vehicle they know is occupied. His hand forcibly entered the vehicle.
And, his intent was to harm the driver.
 

ricco

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It's not about what we think or even know, it's about what we can prove. It can be very difficult to prove something that doesn't happen. In the article it said that the man broke the window and "stumble back". If you employ deadly force against person who is moving backward especially an unarmed person you will very likely be charged and very likely be convicted. Remember the Michael Drejka shooting, Drejka had a far more justifiable case for employing deadly force and he was convicted and sent to prison. This isn't as simple as some think it is. If there is video and you must always assume you are on video your self defense incident will be broken down by inches and seconds, if you watched the Rittenhouse trial you know this to be true. In the recent Curtis Reeves trial the prosecution talked about where Reeves non shooting hand was at the moment Reeves fired the shot and the defense talked about how the bullet passed through the victims hand in such a way that the victim had to have a clenched fist. During a killing trial, for however long it last's, maybe weeks, the jury will hear all about your panicked or irrational or muderous intentions. Remember the Derek Chauvin trial, the prosecution went all the way back to his early days trying to prove he was a longtime bully. Just because you believe you are under a life threatening attack doesn't mean the police will believe it, the Prosecutor will believe it, the jury will believe it or the Judge will believe it, you will have to prove it. A criminal conviction will destroy your life as totally and completely as any attack by a bad guy, be sure your actions are undeniably justified. A broken window and a person stumbling backward...............well.
 
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CSeverns

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If I understand the Oklahoma Stand Your Ground law correctly, it pretty much states that if you even witness someone in the act of committing a felony, you are within your rights (according to state law) to use deadly force. Now someone please correct me if I’m wrong on this.
 

trbii

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If I understand the Oklahoma Stand Your Ground law correctly, it pretty much states that if you even witness someone in the act of committing a felony, you are within your rights (according to state law) to use deadly force. Now someone please correct me if I’m wrong on this.
I’ve been instructed that there is language specifying “violent felony”, in the Ok statutes on lawful use of deadly force. Was just advised this last Saturday morning at a self defense pistol match, that any and/or all opportunity to break contact, escape, run, back off, drive away should be attempted before resorting to the last resort. Told by a sheriffs dept. firearms trainer. His last officer involved shooting incident dragged on for five years in civil courts. Not even his rounds that struck the miscreants.
 

CSeverns

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I’ve been instructed that there is language specifying “violent felony”, in the Ok statutes on lawful use of deadly force. Was just advised this last Saturday morning at a self defense pistol match, that any and/or all opportunity to break contact, escape, run, back off, drive away should be attempted before resorting to the last resort. Told by a sheriffs dept. firearms trainer. His last officer involved shooting incident dragged on for five years in civil courts. Not even his rounds that struck the miscreants.
Is there a list specific crimes that would fall under “violent felony?” Like a purse snatching could seemingly be argued as being a “non-violent” crime and vice versa. So there could be some confusion in a situation where you would need to be decisive.
 

trbii

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The difference between felonious bad check writing and an observed violent felony like pouring fuel on an inhabited structure or vehicle and lighting it. Seriously injuring, maiming or killing a person unlawfully. When the OK legislatures/senators wrote the statutes it is evident they had a real problem with arsonists. Assault and battery with deadly weapon as in vehicle, bludgeon, knife, sword, pitchfork, tool, pointy stick, spear, lance, crossbow bolt, arrow, firearm.
 

GeneW

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Hi. I'm not trying to be an ass or a jerk.

It's one thing to ask other people, either on line here, or in person that you meet.

Let's get one thing perfectly straight and clear: You do NOT want to be in a position where you are sent to jail or prison. What about your family, how will they survive?

Personally, I believe that if something is that important, I'd get some legal advice. So what if you costs you a couple 3 or 4 or 5 hundred bucks? You can't afford it? YOU CAN"T AFFORD NOT TO !!!

I believe I'd take the certified real Oklahoma Self Defense Class, or whatever they call it nowadays, the one you take to get your State Permit to Carry.

I'd ONLY take the one where a licensed Attorney, a member of the State Bar on good standing will speak and then take and answer questions.

Then I'd call around and find out who, among the Criminal Defense attorneys, has defended someone in this manner.

Then I'd make an appointment with at least 1, or 2, to talk to me so that I have a crystal clear idea of what could happen. You may, or may not, be able to get some free time to talk.

Of course, the Attorney can't ask every "what if" question because there are too many variables, but you should come away with a really good understanding of the basic principles of self defense, what the police may do, what the legal system may do, etc.

I'm not a rich man, but I'd darn sure be happy to spend a few hundred or a thousand bucks so that I am reasonably educated to understand the pitfalls and such, and thus the consequences that may or may not be coming. Keeping my family from becoming homeless and hungry motivates me quite well.

No joke, folks, if you get on the wrong side of the law, it doesn't a darn bit of difference what someone told you on the internet.
.
 

CSeverns

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The difference between felonious bad check writing and an observed violent felony like pouring fuel on an inhabited structure or vehicle and lighting it. Seriously injuring, maiming or killing a person unlawfully. When the OK legislatures/senators wrote the statutes it is evident they had a real problem with arsonists. Assault and battery with deadly weapon as in vehicle, bludgeon, knife, sword, pitchfork, tool, pointy stick, spear, lance, crossbow bolt, arrow, firearm.
I understand the difference between what’s obviously a violent crime like murder and what’s obviously a non-violent crime like embezzlement. My question was pertaining to the crimes that could be considered a gray area in being construed as either violent or non-violent and when exactly deadly force is justified. If someone is coming at you, you can’t be 100% certain that their intention was to harm you. You could perceive something as being a threat but the judge could see differently. Not every situation is black and white and easy to read. Most of the time, things like fear, confusion, panic, anxiety, and misunderstanding play a role. When to use deadly force is usually a snap decision one has to make in the heat of the moment because any hesitation could cost you your life or the life of someone you’re trying to protect.
 

trbii

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I would agree with GeneWs’ advice about consulting an attorney about grey areas, splitting hairs about what you think you seeing, how much of a real threat it is. Attorney Robert R. Robles came to our gun club one evening to answer questions concerning these issues, the evening a rep from U.S. LAW SHIELD concealed carry insurance came to give us his pitch. The subject is deeper and more complicated than I thought. Mr. Robles will be the one who answers the phone, if you pay for this CC insurance. His most important point was to call the U.S. LAW SHIELD number, if you’re involved in a self defense shooting. Have the number in your contacts list, know the location, address, city, county where you’re at. Let the attorney do all your explaining
 

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