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Carry question..

Discussion in 'Self Defense and Handgun Carry' started by EhlerDave, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. EhlerDave

    EhlerDave Sharpshooter

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    Okay my mojo is not working because if this has been asked I cant find it, so here it may be asked again. :)

    Do I legally have to carry my gun in a holster? (not just stuffed in my belt) I am seeing more of the small belt clips that attach to the gun and hold them inside the belt.


    Myself I would not use one, because my belly would be in the way and the clip would slide off then the silly gun would fall down in my draws. :)
     
  2. tRidiot

    tRidiot Sharpshooter

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    I think the OPEN carry rules state it must be in a holster. If someone doesn't post it soon, I will find the statue later on when I have some time.
     
  3. Dave70968

    Dave70968 Sharpshooter

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    Concealed, no; openly, yes. 21 O.S. 1290.2:

    A. As used in the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act:


    1. "Concealed handgun" means a loaded or unloaded pistol or handgun not openly visible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person;

    2. "Unconcealed handgun" or "open carry" means a loaded or unloaded pistol or handgun carried upon the person in a holster where the firearm is visible, or carried upon the person using a scabbard, sling or case designed for carrying firearms; and

    3. "Pistol" or "handgun" means any derringer, revolver or semiautomatic firearm which:

    a. has an overall barrel or barrels length of less than sixteen (16) inches,

    b. is capable of discharging single or multiple projectiles from a single round of ammunition composed of any material which may reasonably be expected to be able to cause lethal injury,

    c. can be held and fired by the use of one or both hands, and

    d. uses a combustible propellant charge to propel the projectile or projectiles.

    B. The definition of pistol or handgun for purposes of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall not apply to imitation pistols, flare guns, underwater fishing guns or blank pistols.
     
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  4. EhlerDave

    EhlerDave Sharpshooter

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    Now I remember, yeah what is posted above........ Thanks.

    The yes for open and no for concealed?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
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  5. MacFromOK

    MacFromOK Sharpshooter

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    So... if I carry a visible "holstered handgun" in my hand (not attached to my person via belt/harness/ball & chain/etc.)...

    That's OK?

    Seriously asking for when I go to the mailbox, carry out trash, etc.

    Thanks, Mac
     
  6. rickm

    rickm Sharpshooter

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    My understanding is as along as you are on your property you can carry anyway you want BUT as long as someone doesnt get offended or feels threatened by it.

    Example: and this did happen here locally, A man was sitting in his front yard one morning with a cup of coffee in one hand and a pistol grip watering nozzle in the other watering his flowerbed when a woman drove by and saw him and called the cops on him saying he was waving a gun at all the passing motorist and she felt her life was threatened and in no time his front yard looked like xmas morning in the middle of the summer with all the red,blue and yellow lights flashing.
     
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  7. tRidiot

    tRidiot Sharpshooter

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    Ummm... this crazy bint didn't notice the streams of water coming out of his "handgun"? I mean, if you're close enough, or have such good eagle eyes to be able to notice the thing someone is holding in their hand looks like a handgun, I'm thinking you damned sure should be able to see the water shooting out of it.

    Am I missing something???
     
  8. Dave70968

    Dave70968 Sharpshooter

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    Yup. You're missing where he didn't say the guy was arrested or charged, just that a lot of cops showed up to a "crazy man with a gun" call. If you were running the PD, wouldn't you want your officers to answer that call?

    We're also missing what was the backlash for the crazy woman with a phone, who should have been charged with making a false police report, but probably couldn't be convicted because her vision just isn't that good, and she really believed it....

    Seriously? It's a gray area.

    On one hand, the previous version of the statute specifically said "belt or shoulder holster," and that was amended to the current version; that shows a clear intent to loosen the law. On the other hand, having it in your hand, but holstered, seems to miss the essential point of the holster...maybe.

    One purpose of such statutes is to make it more difficult to ditch the gun; it's easy to toss a gun down the drain if carrying illegally and the cops get close, but a holster attached to your body is a lot harder to lose. If the purpose of the statute was to make that scenario less likely, then having it holstered but in your hand doesn't meet the purpose of the statute, and would be looked upon with disfavor.

    If, however, the purpose was to ensure safe carry (i.e. covering the trigger, can't shift around, etc.), then the statute is not frustrated.

    I favor the former interpretation, for a couple of reasons. First, if the latter were the case, the legislature would (should) have specified "a holster that covers the trigger, keeps the handgun secured," etc. It didn't; it specified "upon the person." Second, statutes aren't read in a vacuum; they're read holistically as part of a "comprehensive scheme of legislation," and courts will try to interpret them according to a common goal. The "concealed" portion of the statute has no such parallel requirement for a holster (likely to allow for pocket carry). If properly concealed, the "ditch the gun" scenario would be irrelevant, as the holster would also be concealed.

    So, it's a gray area; how much of my time do you want to buy (in advance; I've made that mistake before!) being the guy who clears it up for the rest of us? Somebody sees you, calls the cops, you get arrested (if you're lucky and don't have a trigger-happy cop who shoots the man with a gun in his hand on sight because he was afraid for his safety; videos of this abound). Cuffed and stuffed, go to jail, make bail in a couple of days (probably). What cost, that? Not just the bail itself, but what cost to your life? Time in an 8x10 cell with no dignity, away from your family, with crappy food; the whole town now thinks you're a crazy guy who has to have a gun in his hand to check the mail (and, to be entirely fair, let it be said that I have gone out and walked my yard with an unholstered gun on a couple of occasions--the dog told me to. Possum once, raccoon the other time, but it was definitely his alert bark.). Your gun is kept as evidence, you get to spend weeks, months, maybe a year or more under indictment, shell out lots of money for legal fees, going to have to deal with friends and neighbors who now think you're crazy, wondering when you're going to snap, what you're so afraid of (I carry on my property too, having already evicted snakes from in the house on a few occasions--not all threats walk on two legs) and never being satisfied with the answer.

    Oh, and don't make the mistake of assuming that you'll only be charged with improper carry; you'll likely catch paper for threatening. We don't have a brandishing statute, and we clarified that you can point a gun to stop a threat, but when the crazy phone lady calls it in because she felt threatened and you become the subject of a multi-jurisdictional pigpile, you're going to get charged with pointing. That's a felony. Now all of your guns are getting confiscated, your bail just got an extra "0" (maybe two extra) tacked to the end of it.

    So, my legal advice is "I don't know; it's gray." My practical advice is "put on a damned belt." Get a comfortable one with a snap-type buckle and keep it by the door. Best twenty bucks you'll ever spend...and it'll leave your hands free if you need them for whatever reason.

    --Dave, who has also carried firearms in exactly the manner described to take them out to the car, so he obviously doesn't always follow his own advice
     
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  9. Shadowrider

    Shadowrider Sharpshooter

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    Quite honestly if you carry in the waist band without a holster, make sure your health and life insurance is paid up. :screwy:
     
  10. Dave70968

    Dave70968 Sharpshooter

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    ...and I'm the beneficiary.
     

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