Crossbow vs. "Manual Bow"

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Manual being a long bow, recurve, compound.

Guys, with the new law in OK, many are buying crossbows or contemplating it.

However, before you jump on the bandwagon, please realize that although there are advantages to a crossbow, there are also disadvantages. Whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages is debatable, and will vary person to person, among those who are not disabled/injured and thus have no choice.

I initially got the crossbow for the first time this year, due to shoulder injuries to both sides, after years of shooting compounds and recurves (got the doctor's note before the new law). However, both shoulders have healed some recently, and now, even though it's legal with or without doctor's note, I'm contemplating hunting with manual bow, at least under certain circumstances, after shooting the crossbow yesterday and realizing several disadvantages.

Here's what occurs to me, which are specific to the PSE Tac-10 / Tac 15 bows:

1. (probably the biggest one) You're not going to load/cock the bow before going to your hunting spot. You're going to cock it after you get to your spot. So, when you crank the PSE or other bows with a crank, you're making a hellacious noise right there in your hunting spot. Depending on wind and other conditions, and how heavily pressured the deer are, this may make all the deer within 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile stay away for awhile. Maybe half hour if not pressured, but maybe a few days if pressured deer. Obviously, this is not a disadvantage of a manually cocking crossbow, unless you have to grunt and groan to pull back and cock a manual one.

2. If you hunt for hours on end, as most of us do, that bow is gonna be cocked for a long long time, several times per day, every day you hunt. That's gonna put strain on the limbs, and cause their lifespan to be much less than a manual bow. Could get frustrating and expensive replacing limbs & crossbows, if you hunt a lot.

3. They're long / awkward / unweildy -even this relatively compact PSE Tac-10. They are more front-heavy than even a heavy rifle, so unless you're pretty dang large & strong, you're almost gonna have to have a bipod like a stoney point to make them work well, which gives you much less flexibility relative to a regular bow, in terms of quickly adjusting for shots at different angles left to right, and depth/distance as well (and also, if hunting from a tree stand, where do you rest the bipod if all you have is a wire mesh floor?). And, in the event you do wingshoot, you'll be more quick to fatigue yourself and start shaking.

4. Accuracy just really ain't *that* much better than a regular bow, so this is more of a limitation on their advantage, than a disadvantage. Yesterday I was shooting at about 19 yards, and I'm crappin ya negatory, although it's accurate, it's not really what I'd call *uber* accurate. I was shooting from a rested position, and still could not hit within my 1.5" wide circle bullseyes every time - I could only maybe 1/2 the time. I'd get jerk-fliers like I do with a rifle of 2" or more, whereas with my bow, I can do about the same. Granted, with my bow, I will sometimes get bigger fliers, at 3" or more, at that distance, but I also can hit the bull with about the same frequency after I knock the rust off each fall.

5. De-cocking. After most hunt sessions, with no action, you're gonna have to de-cock. This may or may not be a big deal, depending on your strength, etc. But de-cocking is a little trickier than cocking, because you have to activate the trigger or some secondary release, to release the string, at the same time you hold the string and let it down. Now, on the Tac-10, this is *supposed* to be an easy procedure, with the crank, but *right now*, this is an extremely huge disadvantage to the Tac-10 for me, because I cannot get it to work at all, following their procedure. Maybe I'm attempting to do it wrong, or maybe it's defective; I'm not sure yet. But be very careful about this before you shell out $1,300 on a Tac-10 or Tac-15, because it may be somewhat defective - follow up with me and others before you buy. According to the PSE video, you're supposed to hold the crank with the right hand, then push down the release lever with your left thumb, while simultaneously pushing UP on the little steel bar with your left index finger, to pop it loose out of the groove, then slowly let it down by backward cranking the crank. But I've tried it several times and it doesn't work for me, because no matter how hard I push, the bar doesn't want to pop the trigger thing up out of the groove - and I'm afraid to push super hard or else I might slip and lose my grip on the crank, and let a bolt fly up in the air unsafely.

So if I cannot figure this out, then the alternative is either (a) shoot at something in the field, which is a horrible idea, because you have about an 80% chance of breaking or losing your arrow, or (b) going back to camp, where you have an archery target stashed, walking/riding all the way back cocked & loaded every time, which is also a bad situation.


OK, just some food for thought there. Point is, it's not a panacea / no-brainer decision, but like everything else, a series of tradeoffs to be contemplated and applied to your specific situation.
 

Tampabucs

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I know of very few guys who will spend the big money on a pse tac bow.

To be honest, I think you're off base on several comments. First off, you can take a field point and shoot it into the ground to unload the xbow. Secondly, they are more accurate IMHO with a scope versus pin sights. There are guys that can drill shots with an xbow at 40-50 yards that I wouldn't take with my compound. Not a huge deal to me, because most of my shots are not longer than 30 yards.

Also,the biggest advatage to a crossbow is limited movement. I don't know about you, but I have to stand up to shoot my compound. Deer don't see very well, but they are great at spotting movement. Whereas, with a crossbow you shoulder the bow aim and shoot. I was busted last year when I slowly tried to stand up when 5 does came in. Had I had a crossbow it would have been game over.

As for the bow being cocked and hard on the limbs isn't all that accurate. In fact, I have a friend who has had his horton xbow for 10 years. He just now replaced the strings. He leaves it cocked most of the day, because he's too lazy to recock it for afternoon hunts. This all depends upon the draw weight and what the limbs are made of.

I'll give you that they are longer and heavier than a compound or recurve bow. A crossbow isn't on par with a rifle, but I consider it a small advantage over a compound or recurve. I say shoot what makes you happy.
 
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I know of very few guys who will spend the big money on a pse tac bow.

Very true, yes, but 1 or 2 folks just on this board (2 I think) mentioned that they were thinking of getting one, so this may help them. As I mentioned, some of my comments are specific to the PSEs, and won't apply to others; some are general and will apply to all crossbows.

To be honest, I think you're off base on several comments. First off, you can take a field point and shoot it into the ground to unload the xbow.

So I'm gonna unscrew a broadhead from a live arrow, stuck in a cocked & locked crossbow? I don't carry my broadhead tool into the field, and unscrewing a broadhead that is NOT in tight with your fingers is dangerous enough, not to mention one in tight, not to mention one in tight, in a live cocked crossbow. If you mean take the arrow out & unscrew it, then yeah, that's a little better, but again, I still don't have my broadhead tool in the field to take the broadhead out, and besides, I don't want to leave an xbow cocked without an arrow; then an AD results in ruined equipment from dry fire.

And even if I could switch it out easily, I ain't shooting an arrow that costs $99/half dozen into the ground. If the ground is hard, it will break or skip or any number of bad results. If it's not hard, it could bury itself up to the fletching or worse. Strip fletching. Get muddy. Etc. That's just a bad bad idea with a 350-fps-plus xbow like the PSE - way way too easy to break or lose an arrow, and they're very expensive to replace.

Secondly, they are more accurate IMHO with a scope versus pin sights.

Yep, they are more accurate. But as I said, not nearly nearly as much as I expected them to be - at least not this one. They are more accurate, but not THAT much more accurate - it's all to be weighed into the grand scheme of things in making a decision; this limitation on one of their advantages. A definite advantage, to be sure, but a much more limited advantage than I would have hoped/expected, at least so far.


There are guys that can drill shots with an xbow at 40-50 yards that I wouldn't take with my compound. Not a huge deal to me, because most of my shots are not longer than 30 yards.

You bet - and they will extend MY range, and yours, and I think that of most people's, from around 30 yards, to around 50 or 60 yards - almost twice or a full twice - nothing to sneeze at there! This comes in part from the added instrinsic accuracy of shooting a scoped stable platform, but at longer ranges, past 20 or so, also due to the decreased wind movement, and decreased drop estimation/ ranging error - just due to arrow speed. So the RANGE is an unquestionable HUGE advantage, but this advantage is imparted by the *accuracy* factor only in part (the actual, real accuracy stemming from a steady hold and crosshair in a single focal plane), but also in part from sheer arrow velocity, creating additional *practical* accuracy at longer ranges.

Also,the biggest advantage to a crossbow is limited movement. I don't know about you, but I have to stand up to shoot my compound. Deer don't see very well, but they are great at spotting movement. Whereas, with a crossbow you shoulder the bow aim and shoot. I was busted last year when I slowly tried to stand up when 5 does came in. Had I had a crossbow it would have been game over.

Exactly, yes, absolutely! Huge advantage there. It's just that we had gone over the advantages in a different concurrent thread - the one labeled just "Crossbows"; whereas I was wanting this thread to discuss mainly the tradeoffs or disadvantages to those advantages previously discussed. But no reason not to remind ourselves of the advantages - you got that straight!

As for the bow being cocked and hard on the limbs isn't all that accurate. In fact, I have a friend who has had his horton xbow for 10 years. He just now replaced the strings. He leaves it cocked most of the day, because he's too lazy to recock it for afternoon hunts. This all depends upon the draw weight and what the limbs are made of.

OK, I'll maybe buy that it's not too terribly much more wear and tear, like you say, depending upon material/quality, etc., but still, it's definitely MORE wear and tear, at least a little, than a manual bow, which is never held at full draw for long periods of time. But you may be right about the big picture there, as far as this being a significant downside or not - more investigation necessary; thank you. Good to know that this $1,300 piece of equipment might just stand up to years on end of many-hunting-day-seasons, with the bow cocked pretty much all day every day during hunting trips.

I'll give you that they are longer and heavier than a compound or recurve bow. A crossbow isn't on par with a rifle, but I consider it a small advantage over a compound or recurve. I say shoot what makes you happy.

Well, amen to that.
 

Tampabucs

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So I'm gonna unscrew a broadhead from a live arrow, stuck in a cocked & locked crossbow? I don't carry my broadhead tool into the field, and unscrewing a broadhead that is NOT in tight with your fingers is dangerous enough, not to mention one in tight, not to mention one in tight, in a live cocked crossbow. If you mean take the arrow out & unscrew it, then yeah, that's a little better, but again, I still don't have my broadhead tool in the field to take the broadhead out, and besides, I don't want to leave an xbow cocked without an arrow; then an AD results in ruined equipment from dry fire.

Not exactly. The idea is to keep a field point in your quiver. Say you're in a treestand and you want to get down. You put your xbow on safe, pull the arrow with the broadhead out and put it back in your quiver. Then you pull out an arrow with a field tip on and shoot it in the ground.

Some guys choose to bring a small discharge target to the stand, so they don't have to deal with shooting an expensive arrow into the ground.

I'll admit this is a big disadvantage of the crossbow. Even if you can easily retrieve an arrow shot into the ground or target they aren't quiet. So, if a deer/hog is walking near by you just alerted them to your presence. One thing is for sure, there are pros and cons with an xbow.

To me, the pros outweigh the cons. The limited movement thing just can't be said enough.
 
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Not exactly. The idea is to keep a field point in your quiver. Say you're in a treestand and you want to get down. You put your xbow on safe, pull the arrow with the broadhead out and put it back in your quiver. Then you pull out an arrow with a field tip on and shoot it in the ground.

Ahhh, I see - thank you. Good idea. I'm not bringing a target to the stand, but *maybe* using this method discharge into ground, if the soil conditions are *just right*.

Yes, to me the pros outweigh the cons, too - just not by very much. In certain circumstances, I could see the cons outweighing the pros.

Speaking of quiet, that reminds me of another disadvantage:

6. These things are louder than a regular bow, increasing the odds of game "jumping the string" by startling them. 350 fps is fast, but it's still about 700 fps shy of the speed of sound.
 

Danny

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I know of very few guys who will spend the big money on a pse tac bow.

To be honest, I think you're off base on several comments. First off, you can take a field point and shoot it into the ground to unload the xbow. Secondly, they are more accurate IMHO with a scope versus pin sights. There are guys that can drill shots with an xbow at 40-50 yards that I wouldn't take with my compound. Not a huge deal to me, because most of my shots are not longer than 30 yards.

Practice at longer ranges will make you very accurate at those ranges. And crossbows are seldom very accurate past 30 yards themselves. A compound bow, in the hands of a skilled archer, is just as accurate as any crossbow, regardless of range. The scope only allows you to see the spot you're aiming at a little better.

Also,the biggest advatage to a crossbow is limited movement. I don't know about you, but I have to stand up to shoot my compound. Deer don't see very well, but they are great at spotting movement. Whereas, with a crossbow you shoulder the bow aim and shoot. I was busted last year when I slowly tried to stand up when 5 does came in. Had I had a crossbow it would have been game over.

Here again, practice makes perfect. I even learned how to shot a 48" axle to axle bow while sitting flat on the ground on my butt. Had to cant the bow due to it's length. I learned that I could accurately shoot out to 20 yards by aiming 4" to the right of where I wanted to hit. (by the way, I always shot fingers, with flipper/plunger type rests).

As for the bow being cocked and hard on the limbs isn't all that accurate. In fact, I have a friend who has had his horton xbow for 10 years. He just now replaced the strings. He leaves it cocked most of the day, because he's too lazy to recock it for afternoon hunts. This all depends upon the draw weight and what the limbs are made of.

I agree with you here. Making the bow ready when you first get out of the truck is no big deal. In fact, it'll be ready to go if you sneak up on a deer enroute to your stand. And it won't hurt the bow at all.

I'll give you that they are longer and heavier than a compound or recurve bow. A crossbow isn't on par with a rifle, but I consider it a small advantage over a compound or recurve. I say shoot what makes you happy.

I don't. With enough practice, anyone can shoot a compound as accurately as someone with a crossbow. Been there and done that.

The big thing is, if you don't practice with the shot you'll be face with from time to time, you won't ever be comfortable taking those shots. My practice always included sitting on the ground, sitting on a chair, sitting in a tree stand, shooting around the tree I'm leaned against (whether on the ground or in the tree), and shots straight down below where I was.

If you don't practice them, you'll miss a lot of opportunities.
 

dennishoddy

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I have the excaliber equinox, and like Dr Tad has said, not all crossbows have the same problems.
This is my routine when hunting with the crossbow.
I'll get out of the truck, put the xbow on safe, and use the cocking crank to cock it. I'll carry it to the stand, and then insert a bolt. If I don't get a shot, I"ll de-cock it before getting out of the stand. With mine, its pretty easy.
Connect the cocking crank, take the slack out of the string, and pull the trigger. Its just like a boat winch where one can back off the ratcheting pawl to release the string silently.
If for whatever reason I can take a shot, and want to re-cock, I'll put the cocking crank on, and again, release the ratcheting pawl and cock it silently.

I have practiced at 50 yds, but my hunting area is pretty dense woods, and most shots are less than 20 yds. I will say this, the bolt will do a pass thru, and then is hell to get out of the ground. heavily wooded area, and the tree roots seem to grab the broadhead and its tough getting it out. Usually have to dig it out.
 

oneshotonekill

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I have been shooting a compound since I was 13 or so and when I get out and practice like I should I would put money on being as accurate as your crossbow. I went and shot 3d here a while back and didn't pretty darn well if I do say so myself. Some of those shots were kneeling, leaning, sitting and all kinds of odd positions. I think the crossbow may let you not practice but as long as I can pull my bow I will hunt with the compound.
 
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I have been shooting a compound since I was 13 or so and when I get out and practice like I should I would put money on being as accurate as your crossbow.

Exactly what I'm saying, yep! You can be very very accurate with a regular bow. Having said that, I think shooting from weird positions is precisely where the xbow WILL shine over the regular. But just from a standard standing position, the xbow isn't THAT much more accurate in my hands - at least not at 20. Now at 40, 50, & 60 yards? Sure, it will be due to speed / practical accuracy issues (as I mentioned).

Hey Tampabucs, after further thought, you are quite a bit more 'right' than me on the "shoot a field tip arrow into the dirt" issue - my counterpoints were valid except that I wasn't being creative really. It occurs to me now that I could just carry a beat-up crap arrow of another brand/make than the expensive PSE specialty arrows into the field, of sufficient weight & stiffness to handle being launched from the PSE, and simply replace it and shoot it. If I cannot find it or it breaks, who cares - it's an extra junk arrow. I'm happy about this development, as it eliminates ONE downside for me of the xbow, and I really want to like the xbow. So thank you. :)
 

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