Did yall see this? Shoot or don't shoot?

[henschman]

The general rule of thumb is that you inherit the rights of the victim should you choose to intervene. In short, if you were the one on the ground getting the crap beat out of you and you pull your firearm to defend yourself, it's justified. Same could be said if you had intervened in this situation. However there is a caveat in the "inherit the victims rights" routine.

The example was given like this: you pull into a convenience store and see two men with baseball bats chasing a third into an alley. you follow on foot and arrive as the first few swings happen. you intervene on the victims behalf to stop the attack by shooting one assailant. PoPo's arrive and you find out that this "victim" just robbed this convenience store. Looks like you're going to the big house.

In short, if you don't know the ENTIRE circumstances around the violence you're seeing, intervening is a bad idea. For all we know, the chick with the stroller was dealing meth out of it and she got jumped by a group of people she gave fake meth (if that's a thing) to. In that case, you're protecting a drug dealer. justified? probably not.

There are too many factors at play in a scenario like this to warrant intervention, much less use of deadly force. but the thread doesn't have to be "upon you" in order to take action.

This is absolutely right.

 

[TerryMiller]

Didn't see that one. Link?

Chad Peery is the officer that was involved in a bar fight while off duty. He was paralyzed when 3 men jumped him for intervening.

Family Seeks Miracle for Beaten Oklahoma City Officer

He later passed away from injuries in a vehicle crash.

Paralyzed OKC Officer Dies After Crash

 

[aviator41]

Yes sir. Well put. I do remember something like that in my SDA class as well. HOWEVER, as you also stated, that without knowing the circumstances in their entirety you ARE placing yourself in a bad place. I still believe that producing a firearm and shooting one or more the assailants is a bad choice and would land you in prison. AGAIN.... Just my .02.

Agreed, it is a bad choice and has the POTENTIAL to land you in prison, but it's not a foregone conclusion. There is a chance that you're doing the right thing and good will come of your actions. But the risk is high and the penalty is steep if you're wrong. In the split second an SDA license holder has to determine who's right and who's wrong, you're betting your freedom on your decision. Do nothing and stay free, or do something and maybe go to jail - and at the least, spend time in cuffs. I am specifically talking about the scenario in the video here.

Either way, good choice or bad, the very moment you pull that trigger you change the trajectory of your life for YEARS. Even if you're right. There will be financial, emotional and legal consequences that MUST be paid after that moment. It's hard enough to defend your actions when you're the victim. imagine how hard it would be to defend them as an intervening bystander.

I will also say this: If there is an active shooter scenario in a building where I am located and people are being shot or shot at, I will do my best to stop those active shooters if I can. I may die trying, I may not even wound the assailant before I am killed, but by God I'm going to try. I refuse to be executed while lying on the floor helplessly begging for my life. Nope. Not gonna happen. As long as there is breath in my lungs and ammo in the weapon in my hand, I'm going to try to either kill them, or keep them from killing others.

 

[tRidiot]

If you just draw your gun and shoot the people stomping someone, yes, you run the risk of shooting the wrong people.


However, if you pull over and yell for them to stop, then they turn and attack YOU and you shoot one (or more), you DIDN'T do the wrong thing - you shot someone who was attacking YOU. You don't just jump out of the car and start blasting away. Who the eff would do that? Even Ersland wouldn't I don't think.

 

[Honey Badger]

If you just draw your gun and shoot the people stomping someone, yes, you run the risk of shooting the wrong people.


However, if you pull over and yell for them to stop, then they turn and attack YOU and you shoot one (or more), you DIDN'T do the wrong thing - you shot someone who was attacking YOU. You don't just jump out of the car and start blasting away. Who the eff would do that? Even Ersland wouldn't I don't think.

Do you think that would stand in court? OR would some liberal bleeding heart liberal lawyer try to point out that you were safe in your vehicle and in no danger until YOU decided to involve yourself. Man this thread has the potential for a lot of serious thought. Not sure what I would do personally. I'd like to think I would try to help. As a teacher I always do when there a fight between students. HOWEVER, that doesn't require me pulling a firearm either.

 

[TedKennedy]

If you just draw your gun and shoot the people stomping someone, yes, you run the risk of shooting the wrong people.


However, if you pull over and yell for them to stop, then they turn and attack YOU and you shoot one (or more), you DIDN'T do the wrong thing - you shot someone who was attacking YOU. You don't just jump out of the car and start blasting away. Who the eff would do that? Even Ersland wouldn't I don't think.

Why get out of the car?

 

[aviator41]

Do you think that would stand in court? OR would some liberal bleeding heart liberal lawyer try to point out that you were safe in your vehicle and in no danger until YOU decided to involve yourself. Man this thread has the potential for a lot of serious thought. Not sure what I would do personally. I'd like to think I would try to help. As a teacher I always do when there a fight between students. HOWEVER, that doesn't require me pulling a firearm either.

That SOB breaks the plane of the window of your vehicle, all bets are off.

Doesn't matter if you were stopped at a red light and said "hello" to the guy on the sidewalk, or stopped and told some punk to quick sucker punching an old lady (or didn't say anything at all!). the moment they brought the fight to YOU and YOU became the victim, you are within your rights to defend yourself.

Again, plane of the window of your vehicle is the line in the sand, just like the plane of your front door at your home. someone dumb enough to reach into MY vehicle with intent to do me or one of my pax harm -regardless of the words that came out of my mouth... Sucks to be them. THEY upped the violence factor, not me. Those same ramifications apply though. better call an attorney. My attorney is on one-touch dial in my phone because I'm not sure I will be able to operate my phone after an incident occurs.

 

[tRidiot]

Do you think that would stand in court? OR would some liberal bleeding heart liberal lawyer try to point out that you were safe in your vehicle and in no danger until YOU decided to involve yourself. Man this thread has the potential for a lot of serious thought. Not sure what I would do personally. I'd like to think I would try to help. As a teacher I always do when there a fight between students. HOWEVER, that doesn't require me pulling a firearm either.

The law says you are protected if you are in a place you are legally allowed to be and are allowed to meet force with force. Are you legally forbidden from intervening to stop a brutal beating? No, you are not. Are you allowed to jump out and just blast away? No, you are not. But if someone attacks you while you are attempting to STOP A FREAKING VIOLENT FELONY, what is the question here?



Stand by and watch someone get stomped and beaten if you want. Nobody wants to get involved. Nobody wants to stand up for what is right. Everyone is afraid... afraid of violence, afraid of prosecution, afraid of being labeled a bigot or a racist... America IS a society of fear today. Period.

 

[Defnestor]

Chad Peery is the officer that was involved in a bar fight while off duty. He was paralyzed when 3 men jumped him for intervening.

Family Seeks Miracle for Beaten Oklahoma City Officer

He later passed away from injuries in a vehicle crash.

Paralyzed OKC Officer Dies After Crash

Needle.

 

[cobra1]

Wonder if it's gonna be a hate crime.