FBI switching to 9mm

[ProBusiness]

First of all, Atlanta's "Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue" by deadmeat2 is fake - it was proven a fabrication, completely debunked and promptly deleted; it is available for viewing in archived form - just don't forget that it's all make-believe by a teenage mall ninja.

There are around 50 murders in Tulsa a year.
25% of that is non-gun, that leaves 38
20% of that is rifle/shotgun, that leaves 30
There is more than one examiner's office, and there are more than one examiner - but lets be optimistic and say your buddy saw 50% of the bodies - it will still take 60-something years non-stop to see 1000 handgun deaths.

Considering that 45ACP is used in less than 10% if murders - realistically a medical examiner might see one a year.

Why I get sand all over my vee? I am a big fan of discrete math and analytic statistics - and it drives me up the wall when data analysis is made to fit a predetermined assumption. I hate it! Let the numbers speak - its not for everyone but it is an established science.

Sir, you are not even in the morgue.

We have no idea of this retired medical examiner's job scope or experience. In my opinion the beginning of good analysis is to talk to the man who did the work and made the statement. Then our observation would not be flavored by our personal opinions. I have his name and number if you would like to call him and collect and analyze the data he used to make the statement.

I will grant you that 1000 and 1000 seems a high number. But, it could of been his observations after reading many optopsies (sp), heck I don't know.

I hope you have a good day. If you are ever in Tulsa and have time, lunch is on me.

 

[JD8]

Ahh.... the 9mm is equal to everything fans are wetting their pants over this one.

 

[Sanford]

Yeah, those are all about the same. Interesting note from the article:

... the fact is that a lot of .380 ammo is now moving as fast as a 9mm used to, and some 9mm offerings post velocities only previously seen with .357 Magnum ammo.

Hey, guess I can go back to carrying .380 now!

 

[OKCShooter]

Correct, and I'll sing it from the highest mountain, but when the elephant is coming face forward, you better have a heavy round to penetrate 6" of bone to get to the brain.

A waspy light weight round isn't going to do the job if you don't have perfect bullet placement, and have to rely on the bullet to make up for the lack of perfect placement.

We need this guy to check in, he's an expert on the 9mm.

You're so busy with expert Elephant anatomy stats that I'm not sure you're even discussing the topic of 9mm.

In fact, the gibberish that you type is so moronic that I usually pass over it...oh well, it got you that coveted "30,000" post mark.

Congrats on your achievement.

 

[MoBoost]

Sir, you are not even in the morgue.

OH Jeez no, I am not. But even if I was it would only tell me what "finally works" - aka heart attacks and lung cancer. Don't forget, only 9.6% of people who get shot die from the shot wound! I'd rather talk to trauma surgeon. Than again, surgeon doesn't care what caliber person got shot with - just what got hit.

We have no idea of this retired medical examiner's job scope or experience. In my opinion the beginning of good analysis is to talk to the man who did the work and made the statement. Then our observation would not be flavored by our personal opinions. I have his name and number if you would like to call him and collect and analyze the data he used to make the statement.

Yes, I would love to talk to the guy. PM the info please.

I will grant you that 1000 and 1000 seems a high number. But, it could of been his observations after reading many optopsies (sp), heck I don't know.

Here is why I take "observations" with a grain of salt:
Simple fact: Rifle is far superior to a handgun (anyone who went hunting with both will attest to that 100%) and handguns suck at killing people (see the 9.6% stat).

I can count - 17 rounds is more than 8 rounds no matter what statistic method you use.

To make a non-anecdotal differentiation between handgun calibers you will need HUGE sample, yes we are talking 1000s of cases (as claimed) FOR EACH caliber. We don't live in a war zone - there is just not enough murder to go around to collect that sort of data.

And even with the small sample we can gather from internet research - you can either tell that caliber makes NO difference or the sample is too small to see a difference.

Simply, I choose absolute certain double capacity VS a possibility of perceived percent of a percent of increased eventual lethality. Note, I used "eventual" because very little data is out there on how long it took to bleed out with a non-CNS shot.

I hope you have a good day. If you are ever in Tulsa and have time, lunch is on me.

I have state match tomorrow at Oil Capital, I am picking up a scope afterwards at BA. So maybe

 

[ldp4570]

Location, location, location!!!! Folks it doesn't matter if its a .22 short, or a S&W .500, if you can't put it where it counts, then your training sucks!! No if an buts about it. There are really two places to put a bad guy down, one is the brain/brain stem(this is the fastest), and the other is in the massive vein and artery complex right above the heart, or the heart itself. Not as quick as number one, but it will get the job done.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Location, location, location!!!! Folks it doesn't matter if its a .22 short, or a S&W .500, if you can't put it where it counts, then your training sucks!! No if an buts about it. There are really two places to put a bad guy down, one is the brain/brain stem(this is the fastest), and the other is in the massive vein and artery complex right above the heart, or the heart itself. Not as quick as number one, but it will get the job done.

All other things considered, I tend to go with this also ... It doesn't do you any good to shoot the bad guy if you don't hit him in the "sweet spot" ... There are two bad guys alive and well at the County Jail who are living proof of that ... Both were shot with rifle caliber rounds, if I am not mistaken ...

 

[Shadowrider]

Cue the "those aren't real rifle rounds" crowd...

 

[Big_McLargehuge]

Like this?

"something something poddleshooter something"

 

[dennishoddy]

You're so busy with expert Elephant anatomy stats that I'm not sure you're even discussing the topic of 9mm.

In fact, the gibberish that you type is so moronic that I usually pass over it...oh well, it got you that coveted "30,000" post mark.

Congrats on your achievement.

Why, thank you! I never know what it is until you give me a report. Tapatalk doesn't show post numbers.

As far as Elephant anatomy, its easy to see you went to gubberment schools and don't understand what an analogy is.
That's ok, I understand. The next thread we get going on ballistics, kenetic energy involved in ballistics and the fallacy of using ballistic gel to prove ballistic superiority, I'll dumb it down to your level so you can understand.

Location, location, location!!!! Folks it doesn't matter if its a .22 short, or a S&W .500, if you can't put it where it counts, then your training sucks!! No if an buts about it. There are really two places to put a bad guy down, one is the brain/brain stem(this is the fastest), and the other is in the massive vein and artery complex right above the heart, or the heart itself. Not as quick as number one, but it will get the job done.

True, placement is key.
If there is an an obstruction in the way, would a heavier bullet get better penetration vs a lighter bullet ?