FBI switching to 9mm

[SMS]

You might want to relay your thoughts on this to the DOD, because they made it clear they were.

Read the specs on the MHS RFI. It is not caliber specific, nor is caliber the dominant factor. The primary goal of the MHS is a new handgun, not a new caliber.

There is a disconnect between the reporting of the MHS, and what is actually in the MHS documents. Writers know the caliber angle will get more discussion...from those who only read the headline.

 

[farmerbyron]

Correct, and I'll sing it from the highest mountain, but when the elephant is coming face forward, you better have a heavy round to penetrate 6" of bone to get to the brain.

A waspy light weight round isn't going to do the job if you don't have perfect bullet placement, and have to rely on the bullet to make up for the lack of perfect placement.

How many elephants do you plan on engaging with a sidearm ?

 

[farmerbyron]

I agree with ball. Military is the only one restricted to ball ammo unless they are dummy's.

Reports of troops on the ground that face open warfare, and have to deal with the 9mm and its lack of lethality hold great circumstance with me. Special forces units have already gone back to the .45.

Why would you use the example of ball ammo to condemn a caliber? If I'm stuck with ball, then sure .45 is more attractive. But I'm not. When you can have a round with virtually the same terminal performance and less recoil and higher capacity, then why wouldn't you use it?

 

[Lurkerinthewoods]

Read the specs on the MHS RFI. It is not caliber specific, nor is caliber the dominant factor. The primary goal of the MHS is a new handgun, not a new caliber.

There is a disconnect between the reporting of the MHS, and what is actually in the MHS documents. Writers know the caliber angle will get more discussion...from those who only read the headline.

I read the specifics and I also read the comments of the people in charge of finding the replacement to the current M9 and it is very clear that they feel the 9mm round is insufficient for the current needs and have opened it up to other calibers.

I guess we will see when they decide.

 

[MoBoost]

It really depends on person - some see things that are in common, some see "some" difference.

 

[uncle money bags]

Yeah, yeah, but how many inches of bone will it penetrate?

 

[MoBoost]

Yeah, yeah, but how many inches of bone will it penetrate?

I am not sure ... we had redneck scientifical test on a bull skull.
22LR pistol - no penetration
22LR rifle - penetration every time
9mm 4" pistol ball ammo - penetration every time
45ACP (from 1917) ball ammo - 1 out 6 penetrated (yup, 5 glazed off)

 

[uncle money bags]

I am not sure ... we had redneck scientifical test on a bull skull.

45ACP (from 1917) ball ammo - 1 out 6 penetrated (yup, 5 glazed off)

that's unpossible.

 

[SMS]

I read the specifics and I also read the comments of the people in charge of finding the replacement to the current M9 and it is very clear that they feel the 9mm round is insufficient for the current needs and have opened it up to other calibers.

I guess we will see when they decide.

Probably, but there won't be any decision for a long time...this is just an RFI to collect data. They might not actually get to the RFP or trials for a very long time, and even if they do it might end up like the service rifle trials where they decided that the SCAR Light didn't offer any cost effective improvements over the M4 system.

Yeah, they have left the caliber door open but the specs are not written in a way that eliminates 9mm at all. There is simply going to be a comparison of the lethality (using ballistic gel) of any other round submitted with the existing M882 round (note the comparison is to a particular loading, which means someone can present a better 9mm FMJ loading). That lethality, with special emphasis on increased pressures, is balanced with the requirement for reliability and longevity. In other words, just because someone provides a round that is more lethal, if it beats the crap out of the gun and reduces service life, it won't fly.

Here's a link to the actual RFI: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...&id=9f1ce0b713fbca86907916572eee11d6&_cview=0

I don't see how anyone can read that and make the definitive claim that "The military is moving away from 9mm".

 

[J.T.]

that's unpossible.

It'll be a cold day in Hell before I take trash talk from an airsofter.