first time muzzle loader hunting

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I have a Savage AND an SMI. Both shoot well and I love both of them. Actually by the time you figure in the cost of the H&R shotgun a blue/black Savage is about the exact same price as an SMI.

One major advantage the SMI has over the Savage is thier is no damn vent liner to screw with in your breech plug. That being said, SMI's are sort of "homebuilds" and the machining is not as precise as the Savage cookie cutter. This does not hurt the functionality or safety of the SMI, but does effect the aesthetic quality.

I give kudos to both SMI and Savage customer service when dealing with thier muzzleloaders. Both seem to do whatever necessary to "make things right".

Owning and hunting with both I can honestly say the choice of SMI or Savage is a toss up. Completely up to personal preference. HOWEVER, I will add that SMI can "custom build" your muzzleloader. Therefore, YOU CAN BUILD A YOUTH/LADIES MODEL IN A SMOKELESS MUZZLELOADER!! Which is exactly what I did for my wife. Whoever has handled the Savage muzzleloader will agree that it is a tank, and certianly not kid/small framed shooter friendly!

BTW what loads are you shooting out of your SMI

thank you for the info, ElkStalkr.

Let's not forget that now anyone can use smokeless powder in any modern inline. It's called "Blackhorn 209" and is a black-powder-equivalency smokeless powder. Yes, they add something to make it smoke, but in my understanding it's a smokeless powder base.


justinsaneok - see my reply to your delay issue in the other current muzzleloader thread.

but I've been told it would shoot 150g with no prob

You've been TOLD? What does the manual say? You do realize you're dealing with use of your hands, eyesight, etc. here right? According to Chuck Hawks, the manual says 120 gr BP or pyrodex is max - and that means maybe 100-110 triple 7.

 

[criticalbass]

Can't add anything to elkstlkr's post. Pretty much says it all. The SMI is new to me, so all I can say regarding loads is that I'm starting with 250 grain Barnes .458 bullets. Have to look at my powder and I'm away at the moment. Can't remember which it is right now.

Friend of mine has the Savage, and it's prettier than my NEF receiver gun by a lot. He really likes it. It's the complexity that decided me.

There has been a bunch of hoorah about exploding Savages on the internet, but it appears that there is more to the story than is first evident. Apparently has to do with some employment issues and may have been made to happen by a dissatisfied individual. Not worth exploring unless you have time to waste.

So with smokeless, I am completely new. Looking forward to the season.

I have about $450 in the gun itself, including the donor receiver which I found for $80, so mine is less expensive than the Savage, but not a whole lot. Usually an NEF receiver is going to bump the price up close to the Savage SML. CB

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Thats a fair description of the Savage. It is a heavy gun. Any gun with a 1" stainless barrel that long will be heavy.

Which is why what I WILL be doing at some point, ASAP, is getting a thumbhole laminated wood stock Savage 10ML II, cutting & crowning at 18", resetting the front sight to the barrel, and putting a Nikon Omega 3-9x40 back on with QD rings. Iron sights w/Blackhorn 209 & powerbelts for Colo. elk tags, or scope w/smokeless powder & saboted bullets for Okla. hunting. Lopping off 8" of a barrel that heavy should lighten it up considerably, and still offer plenty good ballistics. Can't wait to get a rig that handy & capable both.

Only real question is whether to go on down to 16". But at some point the recoil-increase tradeoff starts to become significant.

 

[dennishoddy]

Which is why what I WILL be doing at some point, ASAP, is getting a thumbhole laminated wood stock Savage 10ML II, cutting & crowning at 18", resetting the front sight to the barrel, and putting a Nikon Omega 3-9x40 back on with QD rings. Iron sights w/Blackhorn 209 & powerbelts for Colo. elk tags, or scope w/smokeless powder & saboted bullets for Okla. hunting. Lopping off 8" of a barrel that heavy should lighten it up considerably, and still offer plenty good ballistics. Can't wait to get a rig that handy & capable both.

Only real question is whether to go on down to 16". But at some point the recoil-increase tradeoff starts to become significant.

Why change what works?
Its a little heavy in the barrel, but using some of the BP substitutes may not give a full burn with the shorter length?
I will say using modern smokless powder in different burn rates may work with a shorter barrel, but faster powders somtimes equate to higher pressures, so it would be a trade off.
Granted the Savage smokeless offers anything any MZ hunter wants, with the ability to use regular Black Powder, or any of the black powder substitutes.
Ok here is my disclaimer, just for general info and I'm noway saying anything bad about your valid post, but for those that are not real familiar with powders, current centerfire powder is a "substitute for blackpowder" back in the day, and still is in some regs.
I'm going to put this in bold caps to make sure that anybody reading this thread realizes that SHOOTING SMOKLESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER NOT DESIGNED TO SHOOT THAT TYPE OF POWDER WILL CAUSE FAILURE OF THE GUN AND POSSIBLE FAILURE OF YOUR LIFE.
Powders like Buckhorn, pryodex and others advertise they are BP substitues.
In my thinking it should be worded differently than that, but I'm sure their legal departments have all of that in order.

 

[criticalbass]

Dennis said it well. I'll say it shorter. If you plan to try smokeless powder in a muzzleloader not specifically designed and marked for smokeless powder, you should first plan a funeral. CB

 

[justinsaneok]

How much of a delay are we talking? I shoot a Thompson Hawken with a purcussion cap and pyrodex and there really isn't a delay for me.

All I can say is it seems like there is a 22 shooting right before a 44 mag

I think I need to shoot it again and see how it goes and I know a little more about it now. Thanks for everyone who takes the time to fill me in on the things I don't know.

 

[Oklahomabassin]

Which is why what I WILL be doing at some point, ASAP, is getting a thumbhole laminated wood stock Savage 10ML II, cutting & crowning at 18", resetting the front sight to the barrel, and putting a Nikon Omega 3-9x40 back on with QD rings. Iron sights w/Blackhorn 209 & powerbelts for Colo. elk tags, or scope w/smokeless powder & saboted bullets for Okla. hunting. Lopping off 8" of a barrel that heavy should lighten it up considerably, and still offer plenty good ballistics. Can't wait to get a rig that handy & capable both.

Only real question is whether to go on down to 16". But at some point the recoil-increase tradeoff starts to become significant.

I wouldn't cut mine down, as I don't think it is that muzzle heavy. I sure wouldn't cut off 8 inches to start with. If you think how a lever works, it gives more leverage the further away from the fulcrum. Cutting off 1/2 a pound of weight at the end of the barrel will feel like more to you holding it in shooter form. Try a little shorter if you must, but shortening too much at first is difficult to add it back. Shorter barrels may not burn the powder completely cutting accuracy.

Why change what works?
Its a little heavy in the barrel, but using some of the BP substitutes may not give a full burn with the shorter length?
I will say using modern smokless powder in different burn rates may work with a shorter barrel, but faster powders somtimes equate to higher pressures, so it would be a trade off.
Granted the Savage smokeless offers anything any MZ hunter wants, with the ability to use regular Black Powder, or any of the black powder substitutes.
Ok here is my disclaimer, just for general info and I'm noway saying anything bad about your valid post, but for those that are not real familiar with powders, current centerfire powder is a "substitute for blackpowder" back in the day, and still is in some regs.
I'm going to put this in bold caps to make sure that anybody reading this thread realizes that SHOOTING SMOKLESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER NOT DESIGNED TO SHOOT THAT TYPE OF POWDER WILL CAUSE FAILURE OF THE GUN AND POSSIBLE FAILURE OF YOUR LIFE.
Powders like Buckhorn, pryodex and others advertise they are BP substitues.
In my thinking it should be worded differently than that, but I'm sure their legal departments have all of that in order.

SHOOTING SMOKLESS POWDER IN ANY MUZZLELOADER NOT DESIGNED TO SHOOT THAT TYPE OF POWDER WILL CAUSE FAILURE OF THE GUN AND POSSIBLE FAILURE OF YOUR LIFE.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well probably good advice, OB - since you said that, I'll likely try 20" first and see how I like it. Like you say, you can always subtract but never add. I know for sure I don't want any longer than 20".

So I'll go from getting 2,300 fps with 240/250s down to 2,100 fps at most, by losing 6" of bbl, yet gain a huge margin of handiness/lightness? Meh, big whoop - still a lot more muzzle vel than a traditional ML, and traditional MLs been killin game a long long time. Well worth the tradeoff.

Note to self: Look into the SMI thing before settling on the Savage - sounds interesting.