Government Forcing Gas Prices Up So We Go Green?

[Nraman]

I hear in OKC they are requiring a device on your electric in some areas. My GF sister complains that they can't control heat/air and it's been to cold this winter (they didn't have a choice).

I told her welcome to 1984 what is being put into place to save energy sound good but what's the real agenda? IMO it's to ration energy (carbon footprint), wait and see it won't be a couple years they just need to gear up and include everyone.

I hear if your rich it won't affect you much since you can buy credit from other companies or people.

It can only happen to us if we let it happen. There is no reason why I have to cut down on electricity use. Electricity is what took us out of the dark ages, I don't plan to go back. It is all about control, Left Wing ideas.

To get back to the topic of the government forcing up prices....show me where the administration has encouraged new exploration or drilling, and significantly ramped up new production? The only thing we've seen if the halting of existing production.

I can show you where the government has raised the prices.
http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html

One wonders if the green weenies will still feel the same when they and their children are freezing to death in the dark or being baked to a crisp at high noon in the middle of summer when mideast oil runs out or other nations outbid us on the commodities market for it?

I have a different view of the future. If we continue on this path, I have no doubt that we will continue to get weaker, to the point that we may lose the country itself. The fact that we were able to afford and were capable of building weapons that gave us an edge, is no longer true. We have turned in to something that does not resemble the buttkicking Americans of the past.
We are a nation controlled by lobbies both foreign and domestic with policies that no longer make sense.
BTW the Chinese are drilling closer to the US (in Florida) than the US is allowed to drill.

 

[Nraman]

A couple things to consider here. One is that depending on the type of green vehicle, it may require lots of rare earth minerals which we don't have. So instead of being dependent on the middle east we become dependent on countries like China which has some of the largest rare earth minerals on earth.

I seem to remember that during the Clinton administration when the Clinton's were getting campaign contributions from China and the people kept voting for him and the Chinese were getting all kinds of trade benefits and everybody thought it was normal, a lot of rare earth operations were unbolted from the floor and shipped complete to, you can never guess this one, China.

then think about the machinery it takes to mine that material, ship is across the ocean, etc.

For electric vehicles with huge batteries, well we all know how long batteries last right? Even if their life was doubled, it will still be only 15-20 years before that car goes kaput, and nobody is going to fork over the cost of replacing a battery like that. So instead of one 30lb battery going in the dump, one weighing several hundred pounds goes into the dump. Tree huggers will have a field day with that one.

There is also, as previously mentioned, coal or nuclear waste that goes into making electricity for plug-in electric cars

Nuclear waste is not a problem, it is supposed to be reprocessed. The French do it and through a vitrification process it becomes stable and safe and no problem.

personally I'm hoping that scientists will find really cheap ways of converting waste plant material and plants like switchgrass to ethanol. That way I can keep my internal combustion engine

I hate ethanol and never allow it in my cars. It is one of the dumbest ideas ever, it does nothing good and has so many negatives that I am very disappointed that the American people put their head down and use that crap, making it clear to the government that they can do anything they want with us, we'll take it. We use our tax dollars to subsidize multibillion dollar corporations in order to put inferior products in our car and get Obama more contributions.
Never!

 

[HiPower]

personally I'm hoping that scientists will find really cheap ways of converting waste plant material and plants like switchgrass to ethanol. That way I can keep my internal combustion engine

Even if you converted every single arable acre in the U.S. to bio energy production, we'd still be stuck buying oil from overseas. Bio is a losing proposition.

 

[LightningCrash]

Even if you converted every single arable acre in the U.S. to bio energy production, we'd still be stuck buying oil from overseas. Bio is a losing proposition.

Where did you hear that? That seriously conflicts with the numbers from Auburn's switchgrass evaluation, where they grew enough biomass to produce 1150 gallons of ethanol per acre per year. Since we know the distillate consumption for MV fuel is roughly 175,000 million gallons per year, it's rather easy to arrive at a number for substituting the entirety of MV fuel distillates, namely 152M acres. With over 470M acres of land being actively cultivated today, do you see the conflict with your statement?

 

[Nraman]

Even if you converted every single arable acre in the U.S. to bio energy production, we'd still be stuck buying oil from overseas. Bio is a losing proposition.

The reason for ethanol according to the government is to reduce imports.
According to several studies, more oil is used to get the ethanol ready and in the tank of a car, than what is saved.
According to Al Gore who cast the tie braking vote in the Senate, it is a mistake and he admits doing it to get the Iowa votes.
Even if all the lands necessary were available, what about the water?
We have more oil than anybody else in the world and right now we are in big trouble financially.
Everybody knows that when the checkbook doesn't balance, you have to create more revenue, cut expenses or a combination.
Oil production creates jobs and their associated taxes, fees paid to the government for the oil produced, equipment manufacturing and so much more. Entire nations today are prospering based on oil alone but, Obama does his best to prevent us from producing our own.
Who is he working for?

 

[VitruvianDoc]

Another falsity to the the whole square acre for biodiversity is they are saying a single level square acre. Humans will be humans and we could always build up.

 

[Souperphly]

Where did you hear that? That seriously conflicts with the numbers from Auburn's switchgrass evaluation, where they grew enough biomass to produce 1150 gallons of ethanol per acre per year. Since we know the distillate consumption for MV fuel is roughly 175,000 million gallons per year, it's rather easy to arrive at a number for substituting the entirety of MV fuel distillates, namely 152M acres. With over 470M acres of land being actively cultivated today, do you see the conflict with your statement?

Closer to 213M acres when you factor the reduced heat content of ethonol, and if we devote nearly half of our farmland to fuel production what will we do for food?

 

[HiPower]

Where did you hear that? That seriously conflicts with the numbers from Auburn's switchgrass evaluation, where they grew enough biomass to produce 1150 gallons of ethanol per acre per year. Since we know the distillate consumption for MV fuel is roughly 175,000 million gallons per year, it's rather easy to arrive at a number for substituting the entirety of MV fuel distillates, namely 152M acres. With over 470M acres of land being actively cultivated today, do you see the conflict with your statement?

Try making diesel fuel from it. And switchgrass doesn't grow everywhere. In fact, it doesn't grow at all much north of Oklahoma.

Our country doesn't run on just gasoline. Ethanol has a BTU content of 76000/gallon. Gasoline has a BTU content of 116090/gallon, therefore it takes approx. 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equal 1 gallon of gas. It's even worse when compared to diesel, which has 129500 BTU/gallon. B100 biodiesel is near parity with gasoline, but has a whole host of problems all its own with an extremely high cloud point (in some cases as high as 36 degrees F), while #2 diesel is .88 gallons of diesel to equal 1 gallon of gas. I know, while nobody was watching we made the whole dang country run on diesel for the supply side of our economy, didn't we? That's because it's the only MV fuel that makes sense to do it with.

Now, if you converted all those acres to biofuels, what the hell do you intend to eat? Switchgrass is kinda chewy, and doesn't taste very good.

 

[HiPower]

Another falsity to the the whole square acre for biodiversity is they are saying a single level square acre. Humans will be humans and we could always build up.

and once you build up, now you gotta move all the topsoil up. So now, nothing grows at ground level.

Dirt more than about 8" down doesn't grow plants well, if at all. Some places a whole lot shallower than that.

 

[Nraman]

Oil is better than crapanol. We have plenty of oil and I'll be damned if I'll support crapanol just because the Lefty, pinko, commies that hate the oil companies decided that we need to save it for the ChiComs and we have to use the crapanol.
To any of you that think that we are saving our oil for the future, forget it, we are already exporting US oil right now and the Chinese are buying Texan oil and drilling off the coast of Florida, while we are getting brainwashed to think we need ethanol.