Government Forcing Gas Prices Up So We Go Green?

[LightningCrash]

Try making diesel fuel from it. And switchgrass doesn't grow everywhere. In fact, it doesn't grow at all much north of Oklahoma.

[blah blah blah]

Now, if you converted all those acres to biofuels, what the hell do you intend to eat? Switchgrass is kinda chewy, and doesn't taste very good.

So how many acres will it take? How many are available? I'm interested in the numbers moreso than what Rush said.

Why would you assume we would be converting current food crop land to biofuel? You said arable land, not land currently cultivated for food.

 

[Nraman]

Why would you assume we would be converting current food crop land to biofuel? You said arable land, not land currently cultivated for food.

The farmers will decide what will be grown where.
Right now 1/3 of the total corn crop goes in the gas tank, raising the prices of all food and everything else, thanks to multibillion subsidies to farm corporations.
At a time of screwed up economy.
IOW food is competing with fuel, right now.

 

[farmerbyron]

The farmers will decide what will be grown where.
Right now 1/3 of the total corn crop goes in the gas tank, raising the prices of all food and everything else, thanks to multibillion subsidies to farm corporations.
At a time of screwed up economy.
IOW food is competing with fuel, right now.

http://www.obpa.usda.gov/budsum/FY10budsum.pdf

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17% of $133b is $22.6b. This would include disaster payments as well as crop insurance not to mention programs like ACRE, SURE, NAP, and DCP. Those are all programs that pay individual farmers and not farm corporations. As you can see from the graph, the govt. has way too many people on the dole to want higher food prices. In fact, every time the USDA releases a market report, it is bearish and has a negative impact on the market.

Another thing to consider is that most of the corn grown in the US is genetically modified and cannot be used directly for human consumption. It's primary purpose is livestock feed and fuel. I personally don't think ethanol is the answer to our problems but every source of energy that doesn't come from the middle east is a good thing. I believe in an orgy of energy. Wind, nuke, oil, nat. gas, ethanol, coal, let's get it on and enough of dealing with the jackasses in the middle east.

 

[LightningCrash]

The farmers will decide what will be grown where.
Right now 1/3 of the total corn crop goes in the gas tank, raising the prices of all food and everything else, thanks to multibillion subsidies to farm corporations.
At a time of screwed up economy.
IOW food is competing with fuel, right now.

We're talking about switchgrass, not corn. And you're saying food is more expensive because corn is subsidized? I'd like to see you demonstrate some sort of causal link there.

 

[JD8]

Oklahoma isn't exactly 'new' exploration is it? We knew that oil was in the ground and it's only economical to go get it now because the price per barrel is going up right? Cushing isnt' new and doesn't add anything to the speculation equation does it?

It's not anything new?
I really don't think you understand what I'm saying or haven't researched the logistics of what has been happening in oil demand/price. Cushing has the largest oil storage capacity in the world. It's a significant delivery point for oil bought through the exchange aswell. Either way, they have been saying for quite some time that the price of oil is ridiculous compared to the fundamentals of the current capacity of storage in the U.S. especially considering the levels we are at now, how many new finds we've had, etc compared to 2008. Therefore, the speculation on the middle east is driving up oil. Notice the conviction of speculators seems to be waning when the price hit 100?

But yeah... I'm sure all that is moot.... it's Obama.

 

[HiPower]

So how many acres will it take? How many are available? I'm interested in the numbers moreso than what Rush said.

Why would you assume we would be converting current food crop land to biofuel? You said arable land, not land currently cultivated for food.

Well, U.S. imports about a bit over 3 billion barrels of oil/yr. If you converted every arable acre to switch grass (and we'll assume it will grow on all 464 million arable acres), and use the study numbers, that comes out to 11.8 billion barrels of ethanol. Based on those raw numbers, no the math doesn't work. However, that arable land number assumes that no one lives on arable land. We'd all be living in the mountains or deserts somewhere. All cities/towns/roads etc would be gone.

We also know that switchgrass won't grow on the vast majority of that land due to weather. If you use corn, ethanol production drops to 500 gallons/acre or so at best (2.7 gallons/bushel, 183 bushels/acre average in Iowa - highest production in the country)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_bushels_of_corn_can_you_get_from_an_acre_of_corn
http://www.educationworld.com/a_lesson/TM/WS_lp324-01.pdf

 

[LightningCrash]

Well, U.S. imports about a bit over 3 billion barrels of oil/yr. If you converted every arable acre to switch grass (and we'll assume it will grow on all 464 million arable acres), and use the study numbers, that comes out to 11.8 billion barrels of ethanol. Based on those raw numbers, no the math doesn't work.

So you're saying 11.8Bbbls of ethanol could not replace 3Bbbls of crude, which would at most be 1.5Bbbls of MV fuel distillate.

You're right, your math doesn't work.

 

[HiPower]

So you're saying 11.8Bbbls of ethanol could not replace 3Bbbls of crude, which would at most be 1.5Bbbls of MV fuel distillate.

You're right, your math doesn't work.

Glad you glossed right over the fact that switchgrass only grows in the south, so you won't get 11.8 Bbbls of ethanol, nor will you get any diesel to run on it.

 

[LightningCrash]

Glad you glossed right over the fact that switchgrass only grows in the south, so you won't get 11.8 Bbbls of ethanol, nor will you get any diesel to run on it.

Here's a picture of switchgrass growing in Canada:

Not that it was even the topic of discussion. Please try to stay on topic next time.

 

[loudshirt]

So let me get this straight. If an oil man is the President then he is trying to help oil companies make a profit? If we have a liberal not very connected with oil man as the President then it is because he is trying to force us to go green? I am going with "C" there is too much money to be made selling gas and oil so any slight hic-up is an excuse to raise the price of gas.