Holtzclaw Verdict

[Ace_on_the_Turn]

Eye for an eye and all of that.

Yes, I support extremely violent punishments for raptists. They are sub-human.

I believe that any man who does not support violent punishments of rapists has their reasons.....

I support the 8th Amendment. I do not see anything cruel or unusual in sending a rapist to prison. The prisoners that may bang and hang the rapist are not acting on authority of the government. Then again, I think that a suitable punishment for any violent offender to receive the violence they dish out as a sentence.

Not big on turning the other cheek?

 

[TedKennedy]

Not big on turning the other cheek?

Exterminating threats. Do I value the safety of my people balanced against the rights of a proven predator?

 

[Glocktogo]

No, black women are not more immune or susceptible to rape than caucasian, hispanic or Asian women.

I point it out because i believe he specifically targeted minority women. Either he has a thing for black chicks, or he targeted them because he thought black chicks were an easier target. That's what i think, and i think that makes it somewhat of an added crime. A factor that should weigh on his sentence, in my opinion.



So not only condoning what amounts to murder, but supporting rape as a form of punishment. Maybe we should just rape all sex offenders and then kill them, is that your solution?

I like your use of ad hominem there as well. Trying to say that because I don't believe rapists should be raped and murdered that I must be "his kind of guy."

It comes across as a false dichotomy. You either support my extreme punishments or you support rape. "You're either with me or against me!"

I'm not in support of mob justice or inhumane punishments. That does not mean I support this individuals actions. As I've clearly stated many times that I do not.

Do you believe in the constitution, sir? What about the eighth amendment?

I do not support vigilante justice. I do support and defend the Constitution of the United States. That does not mean I have to empathize with the plight of a proven sexual predator.

Yes there are a lot of people who say they'd kill them or want to see them given cruel and unusual punishment. 98.5% of them wouldn't follow through if given the power to do so (unless they were related to the victim, then the percentage would climb for those who would).

That being said, the overwhelming majority of society would call for and expect a substantially more severe punishment than you. His debt is to society. The violation of his oath of office is terrible and grave. Doing the exact opposite of the reason he was granted special police powers, should clue you in as to why any leniency is folly.

To be blunt, most of us find your position on this disturbing. It begs the question, why? Do you harbor thoughts of the same? Did you know someone you considered to be a good person, who was discovered to be like Holtzclaw? Did you know someone who was falsely accused? Or do you simply believe in a more liberal justice system, because you've lived a sheltered life and don't fully grasp the physical and emotional harm caused by such evil deeds?

There could be many different reasons, or possibly a combination of them. The human brain is wired to be alert and defensive. Our thoughts tend to focus on the worst possible scenario, so as not to be caught off guard. A more thorough explanation as to why you consider these crimes less heinous might be a good idea, lets the rest of us consider the worst of your justifications. Just sayin...

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

Not big on turning the other cheek?

Not so much.

 

[Frederick]

I do not support vigilante justice. I do support and defend the Constitution of the United States. That does not mean I have to empathize with the plight of a proven sexual predator.

No, but you should support his rights even if you don't empathize with his situation. Everyone has rights. Even rapists.

Yes there are a lot of people who say they'd kill them or want to see them given cruel and unusual punishment. 98.5% of them wouldn't follow through if given the power to do so (unless they were related to the victim, then the percentage would climb for those who would).

Obviously, that could be said of any crime. But when you unironically say that he should be raped and killed in a public forum, you can expect people to take you at your word.

That being said, the overwhelming majority of society would call for and expect a substantially more severe punishment than you. His debt is to society. The violation of his oath of office is terrible and grave. Doing the exact opposite of the reason he was granted special police powers, should clue you in as to why any leniency is folly.

Maybe the majority of society, maybe even a majority of the world. But your argument is ad populum and doesn't mean anything to me. He committed a terrible crime, he should be punished. But he should be treated as well. to me, rapists are sick in the head. they require treatment as well as punishment.

To be blunt, most of us find your position on this disturbing. It begs the question, why? Do you harbor thoughts of the same? Did you know someone you considered to be a good person, who was discovered to be like Holtzclaw? Did you know someone who was falsely accused? Or do you simply believe in a more liberal justice system, because you've lived a sheltered life and don't fully grasp the physical and emotional harm caused by such evil deeds?

I've known homosexuals, pedophiles and rapists throughout my life. I grew up in a bad area just north of miami, the place was/is a ghetto. I had bullet casings in my front yard. You may believe that those who believe in a more liberal justice system have lived a sheltered life, but that's not necessarily the case. I don't believe in capital punishment or corrective rape. I don't believe in life sentences for the sexually deviant. I believe monitoring, mental treatment, castration(chemical or otherwise) and other treatments are more effective than blowing money to lock people up. Not saying they shouldn't spend a good 10-20 years in prison depending, but not every violent crime deserves or necessitates life in prison. Rape is a horrific crime, but rape is something you live through and can be treated/rehabilitated from. Like other forms of sexual crime like molestation, It's not in the same category as murder.

There could be many different reasons, or possibly a combination of them. The human brain is wired to be alert and defensive. Our thoughts tend to focus on the worst possible scenario, so as not to be caught off guard. A more thorough explanation as to why you consider these crimes less heinous might be a good idea, lets the rest of us consider the worst of your justifications. Just sayin...

Well, i think the folly of those arguments against me are very well displayed here. You immediately assume that because i don't call for the harshest possible sentence i must be somehow empathetic or supportive of these individuals or their actions. I don't think it's right to immediately assume the worst without knowing all the facts.

I don't see pedophilia/rape/homosexuality as merely criminal acts, though they obviously are. I see them as moral deprivations and mental sickness that requires treatment, remediation, moral guidance and monitoring. He is a sick, sick individual who needs treatment.

 

[jfssms]

It's obvious some of you guys are much tougher on crime than the state, Mr. Holtzclaw could have been acquitted, but he will be with his kind for a very long time.

 

[Shootin 4 Fun]

No, but you should support his rights even if you don't empathize with his situation. Everyone has rights. Even rapists.




Obviously, that could be said of any crime. But when you unironically say that he should be raped and killed in a public forum, you can expect people to take you at your word.



Maybe the majority of society, maybe even a majority of the world. But your argument is ad populum and doesn't mean anything to me. He committed a terrible crime, he should be punished. But he should be treated as well. to me, rapists are sick in the head. they require treatment as well as punishment.



I've known homosexuals, pedophiles and rapists throughout my life. I grew up in a bad area just north of miami, the place was/is a ghetto. I had bullet casings in my front yard. You may believe that those who believe in a more liberal justice system have lived a sheltered life, but that's not necessarily the case. I don't believe in capital punishment or corrective rape. I don't believe in life sentences for the sexually deviant. I believe monitoring, mental treatment, castration(chemical or otherwise) and other treatments are more effective than blowing money to lock people up. Not saying they shouldn't spend a good 10-20 years in prison depending, but not every violent crime deserves or necessitates life in prison. Rape is a horrific crime, but rape is something you live through and can be treated/rehabilitated from. Like other forms of sexual crime like molestation, It's not in the same category as murder.



Well, i think the folly of those arguments against me are very well displayed here. You immediately assume that because i don't call for the harshest possible sentence i must be somehow empathetic or supportive of these individuals or their actions. I don't think it's right to immediately assume the worst without knowing all the facts.

I don't see pedophilia/rape/homosexuality as merely criminal acts, though they obviously are. I see them as moral deprivations and mental sickness that requires treatment, remediation, moral guidance and monitoring. He is a sick, sick individual who needs treatment.

Free the rapists and the pedophiles! They aren't bad people, they're just like homosexuals.

 

[Fyrtwuck]

Quote Originally Posted by tristanjay View Post
No, black women are not more immune or susceptible to rape than caucasian, hispanic or Asian women.

I point it out because i believe he specifically targeted minority women. Either he has a thing for black chicks, or he targeted them because he thought black chicks were an easier target. That's what i think, and i think that makes it somewhat of an added crime. A factor that should weigh on his sentence, in my opinion.

I don't know that he targets minority women cause he has a thing for them. The news said he was assigned to the Springlake division which covers the northeast side of Oklahoma City. The population in that area is at least 90% Afro-American. Could be that he would have done the same thing in any part of the city. Who knows?

 

[Jwryan84]

No, but you should support his rights even if you don't empathize with his situation. Everyone has rights. Even rapists.


Obviously, that could be said of any crime. But when you unironically say that he should be raped and killed in a public forum, you can expect people to take you at your word.



Maybe the majority of society, maybe even a majority of the world. But your argument is ad populum and doesn't mean anything to me. He committed a terrible crime, he should be punished. But he should be treated as well. to me, rapists are sick in the head. they require treatment as well as punishment.



I've known homosexuals, pedophiles and rapists throughout my life. I grew up in a bad area just north of miami, the place was/is a ghetto. I had bullet casings in my front yard. You may believe that those who believe in a more liberal justice system have lived a sheltered life, but that's not necessarily the case. I don't believe in capital punishment or corrective rape. I don't believe in life sentences for the sexually deviant. I believe monitoring, mental treatment, castration(chemical or otherwise) and other treatments are more effective than blowing money to lock people up. Not saying they shouldn't spend a good 10-20 years in prison depending, but not every violent crime deserves or necessitates life in prison. Rape is a horrific crime, but rape is something you live through and can be treated/rehabilitated from. Like other forms of sexual crime like molestation, It's not in the same category as murder.



Well, i think the folly of those arguments against me are very well displayed here. You immediately assume that because i don't call for the harshest possible sentence i must be somehow empathetic or supportive of these individuals or their actions. I don't think it's right to immediately assume the worst without knowing all the facts.

I don't see pedophilia/rape/homosexuality as merely criminal acts, though they obviously are. I see them as moral deprivations and mental sickness that requires treatment, remediation, moral guidance and monitoring. He is a sick, sick individual who needs treatment.

I'm gonna ask just for my own thought process, but are you Catholic?

 

[RidgeHunter]

I've known homosexuals, pedophiles and rapists throughout my life.

I don't see pedophilia/rape/homosexuality as merely criminal acts, though they obviously are.

Are you seriously equating homosexuality to pedophilia and rape? In the same thread and same post where you're calling for leniency in sentencing a serial rapist?

You must have the weirdest value system I've ever seen.