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Is Your Gun a Weapon or a Talisman?

OUgunnut

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Again, as I said, do whatever makes you happy.

If however you are just shooting paper targets, you are NOT training in a defensive manner. It is better than nothing, but it ignores the most important components of personal protection.

You may do other things that you haven't voiced here but I can only rely on what you have written.

If you don't like the way it's voiced, I can't help you with that.

If you are satisfied about the way you train, then my opinion should be the last thing in the world you should be concerned with.

However the fact that you've chosen to dissent indicates that you feel the need to justify what you do or you question it. If its justification, then refer to my above comment. If its because you have questions, simply read what's offered here for free, take what you like and discard the rest.

I'm simply here to help people prepare for violent confrontations and I give them the best advice I have based on my experience.

If it doesn't jive with your philosophy or goals, then feel free to discard it.

Again, you and your family are the only ones who have to live with the consequences of your decision.

Michael Brown



I'm mostly just posting to stop studying for my finals tommorow:nolike: Please help me stop. You wouldn't believe how much time I waste doing this.

I understand what you are saying and think your philosiphy is good. Some people however can't for whatever reason train to the level of what you are talking about.

I would shoot more than paper if I could but that's what the range permits or cans and what not if they are on the birm. I try to practice what I can do like mag changes, double taps, etc etc. I'm not trying to justify anything as I said there is no doubt I am not as ready as someone who trains like you. There's still lots to be said for any individual IMHO who practices regularly as they are able to.
 

Michael Brown

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I'm mostly just posting to stop studying for my finals tommorow:nolike: Please help me stop. You wouldn't believe how much time I waste doing this.

I understand what you are saying and think your philosiphy is good. Some people however can't for whatever reason train to the level of what you are talking about.

I would shoot more than paper if I could but that's what the range permits or cans and what not if they are on the birm. I try to practice what I can do like mag changes, double taps, etc etc. I'm not trying to justify anything as I said there is no doubt I am not as ready as someone who trains like you. There's still lots to be said for any individual IMHO who practices regularly as they are able to.


For the sake of your grades:wink2:, I will wait until tomorrow to offer some additional places to look for advice and how you can train without spending a lot of time or money.

Michael Brown
 

swavy00

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I'm mostly just posting to stop studying for my finals tommorow:nolike: Please help me stop. You wouldn't believe how much time I waste doing this.

I understand what you are saying and think your philosiphy is good. Some people however can't for whatever reason train to the level of what you are talking about.

I would shoot more than paper if I could but that's what the range permits or cans and what not if they are on the birm. I try to practice what I can do like mag changes, double taps, etc etc. I'm not trying to justify anything as I said there is no doubt I am not as ready as someone who trains like you. There's still lots to be said for any individual IMHO who practices regularly as they are able to.

Get to the books!! Get off here, it is not good for grades! Hang with us. These guys can give a lot of pointers. I wasn't much into training when I first started on here, but am getting more and more involved all the time. You wouldn't take a final without studying would you? Same thing here, hopefully you never are tasked with saving yourself or your family, but if you are, you would want to be prepared for that also. You are on the path now. Shooting is a step in the right direction. Just keep taking steps. Most of us don't train as much as we should, but we all just keep taking steps towards our goal. Lifelong process for all of us. Even the high speed, low drag guys never stop training. Everyone starts somewhere.
 

ConstitutionCowboy

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Mike,

That's an excellent list of questions to ask one's self before and after one decides whether or not to carry.

I was able to answer affirmatively to eight of the ten.

okla-lawman said:
2) There are sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs in the world. Which are you going to be?
Neither. I'm a ram that will butt back if the sheepdog turns against the flock or refuses to ward off the wolves.

Woody

If you want security, buy a gun. If you want longevity, learn how to use it. If you want freedom, carry it. There is nothing worth more than freedom you win for yourself. There is nothing more valuable to that end than the tools of the right that make it possible. B.E.Wood
 

abajaj11

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It is my belief that 99% of people who carry guns are not prepared to survive a violent assault (including police officers). While this may offend a lot of carriers, I feel its important to address.

So I ask, is your gun truly a weapon to you or a talisman that will hopefully ward off those who will bring you harm?

To answer this question properly, I propose a series of ten questions with sub-questions. They are not all-encompassing but should give you some ideas to ponder if you are really interested in self-defense and not just busting caps (as fun as that is). There are other issues such as first aid and other issues, but I think this list does a pretty good job questioning the basics of your plan.

1) Do you train realistically with the gun and gear you actually carry with the clothes you actually wear? What does "realistic" mean to you?

2) Will your gear hold up under the stress of a physical encounter? How do you know?

3) Do you regularly train against a live, resisting opponent?

4) Could you physically hold up against an all-out assault from a determined adversary? How do you know?

5) Do you actively train your mind for violent conflict? How?

6) Do you carry less-lethal options when you carry your gun? Have you practiced regularly with them?

7) Do you EVER go anywhere unarmed where you are not legally prohibited from doing so?

8) Have you assessed how long it would take you to access your weapons from any point in your home? Have you checked it against entry from various points in your home?

9) If you have spouses/significant others or children, have you trained them in how to respond if it all goes down? Would they replicate this behavior if you asked them to do it RIGHT THIS MINUTE?

10) Do you become task-fixated in public places? Balancing the check book in the parking lot? Talking on the cell phone while walking across the parking lot? Be honest with yourself.

It doesn't matter if you do all of these things or none of these things. What is important is that you understand where you stand and decide what you want to be.

Nothing we write on a keyboard will save us, but we do want people to start thinking.

Michael Brown

Good sobering points. IMHO, there are degrees of threats and degrees of training. If a trained killer came after me, with lots of experience, then a higher level of training would be needed. But most criminals are too lazy to train, no? Otherwise why why would they be criminals, if they weren't lazy and looking for an easy way out in life? Most folks I see training are extremely law abiding, and most CCW holders are extremely law abiding.

Of course, a bullet is a bullet, no matter how untrained the hand that fires it.
I like to shoot for fun, and any training I get is incidental, but no doubt, a practiced shooter will fall back on practice techniques (grip, front sight, trigger control, etc) thereby increasing the chance of first neutralization.
But the best defense is of course, to leave quickly, BEFORE anything hits the fan, so you don't have to risk facing those bullets.
-abajaj11
PS I realize folks in LE don't always have the luxury of leaving before stuff hits the fan, but I think Michael's post was aimed at civilians.
 

J.P.

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Good sobering points. IMHO, there are degrees of threats and degrees of training. If a trained killer came after me, with lots of experience, then a higher level of training would be needed. But most criminals are too lazy to train, no? Otherwise why why would they be criminals, if they weren't lazy and looking for an easy way out in life? Most folks I see training are extremely law abiding, and most CCW holders are extremely law abiding.

Of course, a bullet is a bullet, no matter how untrained the hand that fires it.
I like to shoot for fun, and any training I get is incidental, but no doubt, a practiced shooter will fall back on practice techniques (grip, front sight, trigger control, etc) thereby increasing the chance of first neutralization.
But the best defense is of course, to leave quickly, BEFORE anything hits the fan, so you don't have to risk facing those bullets.
-abajaj11
PS I realize folks in LE don't always have the luxury of leaving before stuff hits the fan, but I think Michael's post was aimed at civilians.


While most people you see training may be "extremely law abiding", the sad fact of the matter is that most people don't train at all.
Criminals do train, especially through ongoing on-the-job experience.

So in effect you have:
-A criminal who constanly hones his skills
-A citizen who never trains at all.
Even if they do train, is their training enough to compete with a criminal who trains with hands on experience?
That's the question we need to ask ourselves.

Shooting practice is a good thing , no question because while "a bullet is a bullet", it is completely worthless and possibly even more dangerous on the user end if it doesn't accurately fins it's target.
Falling back on practice techniques is good, but are you practicing the right things?
When you analyze a dynamic self defense situation, often you will find that the "shooting" or "gun" part is not really the most important aspect.
Those things are just hardware.

Leaving quickly is good advice.The best way to avoid a conflict is to not be there.
Unfortunately we are not always given that option.
You should train to prepare for the worst case...not the best. (obviously)
 

Michael Brown

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While most people you see training may be "extremely law abiding", the sad fact of the matter is that most people don't train at all.
Criminals do train, especially through ongoing on-the-job experience.

So in effect you have:
-A criminal who constanly hones his skills
-A citizen who never trains at all.
Even if they do train, is their training enough to compete with a criminal who trains with hands on experience?
That's the question we need to ask ourselves.

Shooting practice is a good thing , no question because while "a bullet is a bullet", it is completely worthless and possibly even more dangerous on the user end if it doesn't accurately fins it's target.
Falling back on practice techniques is good, but are you practicing the right things?
When you analyze a dynamic self defense situation, often you will find that the "shooting" or "gun" part is not really the most important aspect.
Those things are just hardware.

Leaving quickly is good advice.The best way to avoid a conflict is to not be there.
Unfortunately we are not always given that option.
You should train to prepare for the worst case...not the best. (obviously)

You have learned well young Jedi.:wink2:

Michael Brown
 

mitchshrader

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Good Question.. and I had to get that out before I disagreed with one thing or another..

I'm of the opinion that determined willingness, (often called mindset) .. is critical to self defense....and necessary for even 'good' training to form good habits.

I'm moreso convinced that training sincerely (time & money invested, experienced instructors, LISTEN to feedback and adapt).. is VERY important to success in self defense.. but *second* in that *first* you have to make up your mind you're WILLING to do that Defend part.

most gun owners ( gun enthusiasts is more correct) have forgotten some things about HOW they decided to be responsible for their own self defense. .

if you've been a lifelong gun owner, you may never have actually decided to be responsible, it sort of grew up when you did.

many folks think of guns as talismans, nice word by the way.. and by MY standards, that beats nothing.. both to have a gun (with minimal foundation of training) and for the example it sets (for others lacking skills)...

yes, the training is critical. no, it isn't strictly required to WIN.. too many untrained folks have won, to prove that point in error.

what might not be evident is that CRIMINALS may be untrained.. they don't have to take tests.. there are certainly plenty of stupid ones, yes?

Yes, training is necessary. Yes, having a gun beats having a talisman.

That's *not* a reason to avoid gun ownership as long as you don't mistake ownership for skill.

There have been one heck of a lot of homicides committed by the untrained. . and SOME of those homicides were self defense, entirely legal and honorable.

Part of the reasons that gungrabbers get excited is how LITTLE training guns take, to be operated correctly.

Considering they've rejected personal responsibility for self defense and civic duty for defense of their family and neighborhood, it rubs their noses in it that they *could* confront the problem themselves if they only WOULD..

ANY level of training is a step in the right direction. A *badly* trained person who gets themself shot trying.. is more valuable to ME, the innocent bystander.. than an apathetic drone who doesn't care. .

I do NOT suggest anyone ignore training requirements, but I won't call them the big half. The big half is WILLING.. and we can work with that. It ain't very difficult once they're willing...
 
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