yes this much I already knew(the requirements for open carrying and or official interactions with law enforcement). my understanding was exactly as you described it hrdware, thanks.
Police get OWNED by guy who know's his rights.. For concealed or open carry people!!
- Thread starter younggundavid
- Start Date
yes this much I already knew(the requirements for open carrying and or official interactions with law enforcement). my understanding was exactly as you described it hrdware, thanks.
I disagree. The REAL problem comes when an officer asks for ID and a person carrying a weapon of ANY KIND refuses to identify. At what point does a contact become "official"? Like it or not the rules change when you strap on a gun (either openly, or concealed) and go about your day ... And anyone who doesn't think so is just begging to be made an example of.
I dunno about you guys, but I don't need to make a personal statement (and risk a contact becoming "official") while I am conceal carrying a weapon. However, as always ... YMMV ...
Now ... you guys can debate whether this is "fair" all day long and I don't care one way or another but to make it sound like you can carry a weapon and refuse to provide an officer with identification "just because" is simply irresponsible ... Because an "unofficial" contact can quickly become "official" if you want to give an officer an articulable (is that even a word??) reason to make it official ... and whether you like it or not a weapon of any kind makes it pretty easy for an officer to articulate concern for public or officer safety.
ETA: If you are not carrying a weapon of ANY KIND, then I do agree with you, that ID is not required to be provided. But again, you have to ask yourself ... Just how much do you want your day to be screwed up? Because you open yourself up to all kinds of legal "possibilities" by refusing to ID yourself. Just so long as you know that things might not go exactly how you would like for them to (or how you think they "ought" to go in a perfect world), then it's all good ...
I agree but you better follow the law. If not I would make sure there was some documentation put in your file. It goes both ways... That is the problem I have is some of the younger ones thinks it a crown and I bow to no one. If you treat with respect then you tend to get the same respect back.
Respect is the issue with some of the "younger ones". Many of them work in parts of town where no matter how nice they are they do not get respect from the community. It is not just the younger cops it is the younger members of society as well. They think laws do not matter as long as they are "not hurting anyone". They get mad when an officer pulls them over because they were speeding through a school zone with a 4yr old bouncing around in the back of the car.
Respect is a two way street. Just like you can show many videos of people being "disrespected" by police officers, you can also find many videos of police officers being respectful and getting treated like crap. When asked for your name it would be respectful to tell the officer your name, you dont have to give him your DL/ID, however telling him your name will go a long way in the respect department.
Define official contact... thats the confusing point for most people if an officer is walking by and says have a nice day do I have to blurt out "I have a gun" at what point does a friendly exchange become official contact.
I say "good morning", and "how you doing?", along with a plethora of other mundane niceties to officers I may encounter in public, should I abstain from doing so since I don't blurt out hey I've got a gun? I open carry on the bike, lets face it its easier said hello to an officer while he was filling up at the pump next to mine, the bastard had the temerity to ask me how my day was going and complement my motorcycle yet never demanded to see my permit. I've had officers look right at me in traffic and never once indicate they give a **** about the springfield XD on my hip.
Attention whores gonna be attention whores the whole thing is silly and stupid. I know people who are straight arrows that can't encounter a cop without getting a ticket and then theres guys that get stopped all the time and get told to slow down and have a nice day. It's all about the individual and how they carry themselves most of the time, you wanna be jackass go ahead. Me I'll save my douche baggery and disdain for authority for the real problem in this world the oppressive moderators and owner of this den of iniquity we call OSA...
I say "good morning", and "how you doing?", along with a plethora of other mundane niceties to officers I may encounter in public, should I abstain from doing so since I don't blurt out hey I've got a gun? I open carry on the bike, lets face it its easier said hello to an officer while he was filling up at the pump next to mine, the bastard had the temerity to ask me how my day was going and complement my motorcycle yet never demanded to see my permit. I've had officers look right at me in traffic and never once indicate they give a **** about the springfield XD on my hip.
Attention whores gonna be attention whores the whole thing is silly and stupid. I know people who are straight arrows that can't encounter a cop without getting a ticket and then theres guys that get stopped all the time and get told to slow down and have a nice day. It's all about the individual and how they carry themselves most of the time, you wanna be jackass go ahead. Me I'll save my douche baggery and disdain for authority for the real problem in this world the oppressive moderators and owner of this den of iniquity we call OSA...
I agree with you, and I hope this is the last time that cop makes that kind of a stop.
By his definition, someone could just as easily have called the police on someone walking out of a liquor store with a fifth of Jack Daniels, and accusing him of wanting to use it to drive while intoxicated.
LIke you, I prefer dealing with LEO's who have more experiance under their belt, and are past the stage of shaving their heads and wearing wrap around sunglasses.
The guy was talking a bit fast and forcefully... I think he was a bit "adrenalin'd up". Not because he was looking for a fight, but because he was in a tense situation. Being stopped by the police while carrying a gun can make anyone nervous... obviously, he WAS suspected of being a criminal, or he wouldn't have been stopped to begin with. The officer in the video DID at least know enough to officially deny that fact, but it doesn't change the fact that we all KNOW... he HAD to have suspected him of something, or he would NOT have stopped him. I do not believe the officer really knew he was in the wrong for simply asking for something so benign as ID, but when the citizen declined (being well within his rights), the situation obviously became a bit more tense. I would have been slightly tense, too, had a police officer stopped me because some Nervous Nellies were scared of something patently NOT illegal and began to treat me as if I WERE suspected of a crime - disarming me? Taking away my gun, which effectively then prevents me from leaving the scene as I am well within my rights to do (who's going to leave their $300-1000 weapon behind?).
I sympathize a bit with the citizen for being a bit hyped up... I am sure he was nervous. Knowing he was within his rights and following the law 100% is one thing, but obviously, you never know if one of those cops who has a complex is going to end up body-slamming you on the pavement. It's a real concern, sadly. I know in some places, that video recording device would have been snatched out of his hands and mysteriously ended up broken on the sidewalk, while he was then subjected to who knows what kind of treatment. Not bashing anyone here, but there are places I have personally lived (both here in the US and abroad) where the constabulary does not take well to being questioned in any way, right or wrong though they may be.
Good on the citizen for being well-read and prepared, I'll give him an 80%, with the only deductions being his nervousness and seemingly-confrontational demeanor (which I think is a direct result), and I'd give the initiating officer a 55-60% for trying to be polite while stalling and pumping for information rather gently until his supervisor arrived, but illegally disarming someone doing nothing wrong and seizing his property in the course, even temporarily. And the supervisor gets a solid 100% for immediately putting the incident to an end.
I sympathize a bit with the citizen for being a bit hyped up... I am sure he was nervous. Knowing he was within his rights and following the law 100% is one thing, but obviously, you never know if one of those cops who has a complex is going to end up body-slamming you on the pavement. It's a real concern, sadly. I know in some places, that video recording device would have been snatched out of his hands and mysteriously ended up broken on the sidewalk, while he was then subjected to who knows what kind of treatment. Not bashing anyone here, but there are places I have personally lived (both here in the US and abroad) where the constabulary does not take well to being questioned in any way, right or wrong though they may be.
Good on the citizen for being well-read and prepared, I'll give him an 80%, with the only deductions being his nervousness and seemingly-confrontational demeanor (which I think is a direct result), and I'd give the initiating officer a 55-60% for trying to be polite while stalling and pumping for information rather gently until his supervisor arrived, but illegally disarming someone doing nothing wrong and seizing his property in the course, even temporarily. And the supervisor gets a solid 100% for immediately putting the incident to an end.
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