Scenes from a militarized America: Iowa family ‘terrorized’

[jsl_pt]

One more post before I call it quits (and yes I have read the article and watched the video).

What information did the officers have when they went on the warrant service? Were the told John Q Violent Felon is friends with the suspects and had been staying there? I don't know. I wasn't at the briefing.

I don't know, but whoever did the briefing should be held accountable and if I was a LEO, I would not just go on the briefings, I better look at the intel myself if I'm putting my life on the line for credit card fraud and then I get the location wrong.


I don't base my opinions on the media's article or news story. I have yet to see them get all the facts right...they don't even get all the facts! I guess I should believe everything that is printed or everything I'm told but experience tells me otherwise.
No but it should provide enough to question, there's enough there to know the cops screwed up

The video...how many angles are on the house? Were there officers at other doors or windows knocking and making announcements? I don't know. Do we have all the video or just some of it? Just some of it, apparently several parts of the video was "destroyed"

Taking down the cameras. When were they taken down? If there were still any areas of the house that had not been cleared taking them down or obstructing their view prevents a possible bad guy from seeing your movements and knowing exactly what to expect.

Once again, this was not an arrest warrant, or escaped convict, IT WAS A FREAKING SEARCH WARRANT!!! A search warrant to see if the presumed innocent people had committed a crime by searching for evidence based on other reasonable suspicions or circumstantial evidence. Why can't a couple LEO's knock on the door, "excuse me gentleman/ma'am, we have a search warrant to search the premises, if you don't cooperate we have the authority to enter anyway." WOULD THAT BE SO FREAKING HARD???

I can understand why someone would be upset about having their door kicked in. I would be too. But the video and article do not cover nearly all of the questions officers would ask at pre-service briefing.

Let me kick in your door in the middle of the night without you knowing and see if you are "upset" and then I say, "oops my bad, I was playing a joke on my friend, got the wrong address, have a good night"

I'm not defending these officers. I don't know them. Maybe they did things wrong. Maybe not. My point is that there simply are not enough facts given at this time to make that decision. It sounds like there is an investigation into this incident as we discuss it. I'll wait to see what details come from that. You've pretty much defended everything they had done to this point

I usually don't get involved in these threads. Hopefully my comments have helped show that there are a lot more things taken into consideration when going to serve a warrant than what's talked about in the article/video. I stand by my comments that, as someone who has had to deal with armed and barricaded subjects, APCs, flashbangs and tear gas are tools that save lives, both officers and suspects. Maybe those things are too "military" but if they save lives and keep people from being shot I think they are a benefit. Anyway, I hope crime does not find any of you. If so and you're in Tulsa I'd be happy to do what I can to serve you.

I do thank you for being a LEO, I understand the job can suck, there are good cops out there, I know several, but our right should not be violated to make your job easier. It is my firm belief LEO should not be military. And these instances are very similar to kicking in doors overseas. I laugh when I watch old detective shows, cop shows, even old "cops" epdisodes and I don't see any of this ridiculousness, yet somehow those cops got the job done while still dressing like a normal person without 30 pounds of armor to look for credit card receipts.

Oh and to the member who said this job sounds awful. Sometimes it is awful, but getting to help good people who have been hurt by criminals is so much better and makes it worth it!

Have a good one!

responses should be in red

 

[cmhbob]

This department was out of their jurisdiction. That means they didn't know the area or the neighborhood, and likely did no prior surveillance on the location. So much for best practices.

They have no written protocol for performing no-knock or knock-and-announce searches. So much for best practices.

There was NO justification for obscuring the camera inside the house. None. I MIGHT give you a pass on disabling the exterior camera. But if I did, I'd be giving tacit approval of what was basically a no-knock raid, so no. I won't.

Their sole justification at this point for using the tactics they used was that one resident of the house had a government-issued firearms permit. Think that one over.

 

[ASP785]

This was a tough thread to read.

 

[jsl_pt]

 

[Pokinfun]

I saw a video where Some Dallas LEOS are wearing cameras on their uniform, for the same reason they had dashboard cameras. I assume the camera is to keep everyone honest.
I have a gopro, it takes awesome video, and is very small. I don't understand why SWAT teams do not wear them on their helmets. If the police did wear cameras, I think it would keep everyone honest.

 

[Glocktogo]

This department was out of their jurisdiction. That means they didn't know the area or the neighborhood, and likely did no prior surveillance on the location. So much for best practices.

They have no written protocol for performing no-knock or knock-and-announce searches. So much for best practices.

There was NO justification for obscuring the camera inside the house. None. I MIGHT give you a pass on disabling the exterior camera. But if I did, I'd be giving tacit approval of what was basically a no-knock raid, so no. I won't.

Their sole justification at this point for using the tactics they used was that one resident of the house had a government-issued firearms permit. Think that one over.

I'm not sure you could go that far based on the video and media report. That's a lot of supposition on your part.

What we know for a fact is that "knock" warrants can be served several different ways. It seems to me that a search warrant for evidence in a small financial crime, that couldn't exactly be flushed down the toilet is the type of warrant where a couple of uniforms and the detectives knock on the door, wait for someone to open it, then announcing they have a warrant to search the premises. Knocking, ramming the door in under 5 seconds and swarming the interior with SWAT guys with rifles and masks is undoubtedly over the top.

If your search turns up empty, you didn't destroy private property, didn't look like bullies and your overreaction doesn't make the 6 O'clock news.

 

[dennishoddy]

I'm putting my life on the line. .

There a ton of people that put their life on the line every day that aren't LEO.

Put your self in the shoes of a lineman putting the power back in service perched on a pole in the middle of a thunder storm with lightning all about,
Electricians working on circuits that carry over a thousand amps of power. Enough to take a head off if it malfunctions and explodes in an electrical arc, or their finger slips while measuring voltage and falls into 480 volts or higher that heats the internal organs to 160 degrees in .2 of a second.
We all have dangerous jobs at some point. I could go on for hours about people with dangerous jobs.

Having a dangerous job does not create immunity to bad decisions.

 

[Dave70968]

Having a dangerous job does not create immunity to bad decisions.

Of course not. Being a government agent creates immunity to bad decisions. It's the only way the government can attract the best and brightest.

 

[dennishoddy]

Officers killed in the line of duty for 2013. 33


http://www.odmp.org/search/year

Workers killed in the top ten most dangerous jobs: (2012, the final figures are being developed) 4,383

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/

 

[Lurker66]

http://icasualties.org/oef/

Officers killed in the line of duty for 2013. 33


http://www.odmp.org/search/year

Workers killed in the top ten most dangerous jobs: (2012, the final figures are being developed) 4,383

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/08/22/americas-10-deadliest-jobs-2/

http://icasualties.org/oef/

War stats.