"Self Defense" keychain fobs. Same as brass knuckles?

[UnSafe]

My eldest daughter asked about the plastic cat face keychain fobs that can be placed over two fingers and have the "Ears" pointed up, for use as a defense weapon. Available from online vendors like Amazon and probably at Old Paris flea market. Although they're not brass, they potentially add to the effects of a punch by focusing the energy to two points.

Are these recognized as brass knuckles, per Oklahoma law?

 

[Johnny]

My eldest daughter asked about the plastic cat face keychain fobs that can be placed over two fingers and have the "Ears" pointed up, for use as a defense weapon. Available from online vendors like Amazon and probably at Old Paris flea market. Although they're not brass, they potentially add to the effects of a punch by focusing the energy to two points.

Are these recognized as brass knuckles, per Oklahoma law?

They should update the law to include plastic cat face knuckles. I would like to see how that law would be interpreted in 40 years.

 

[Brandi]

That's a good question, I'm curious also. I don't have one but I'm guessing they are not considered as the same. Brass knuckles were used primarily as an offensive weapon while the plastic "kitty knuckles" are designed as defensive and pretty unlikely to be chosen as a bad guys tool of choice for an offensive attack.

 

[AKguy1985]

I dont think they would be considered the same as brass knuckles.

 

[KOPBET]

...while the plastic "kitty knuckles" are designed as defensive ...

What if they had JB's face on them, then what?

 

[twoguns?]

I would think they would be classified under , "any other offensive weapon"

Depending on the situation, it would/could be an add on charge.

Now dont Flame me , I believe a bowie knife or a good Boot knife a Defensive weapon, not offensive to me at all...

Offensive meaning: they offend some one in this situation....I know..nother stupid definition

 

[ProBusiness]

That's a good question, I'm curious also. I don't have one but I'm guessing they are not considered as the same. Brass knuckles were used primarily as an offensive weapon while the plastic "kitty knuckles" are designed as defensive and pretty unlikely to be chosen as a bad guys tool of choice for an offensive attack.

Not so. Any of the following items/weapons listed below in said statue could be used as an 'offensive' or 'defensive' item. That is why the law says they are unlawful. That is, you cannot say, "I am a good guy and would only use a blackjack in a 'defensive' mode. A LEO when he sees a blackjack or any of the other tools listed below does not make a judgement call of you and your possible use of said weapon. If a LEO sees one of these items in a car, he does not make a judgement call and says, "Well for you it is 'ok' because I think you would only use as a 'defensive' weapon". Whereas he stops another car and says, 'well, i think you would use this as a attack weapon and therefore i will arrest you'.

One of the tactics used by bad guys is misdirection. Using something or doing something first seen as harmless but actually planning to harm you with it.

In my class I teach the 'kitty knuckles' are in the same category as 'brass knuckles' and therefore illegal per Title 1272 Unlawful Carry.


TITLE 21 § 1272 UNLAWFUL CARRY
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:

 

[twoguns?]

Not so. Any of the following items/weapons listed below in said statue could be used as an 'offensive' or 'defensive' item. That is why the law says they are unlawful. That is, you cannot say, "I am a good guy and would only use a blackjack in a 'defensive' mode. A LEO when he sees a blackjack or any of the other tools listed below does not make a judgement call of you and your possible use of said weapon. If a LEO sees one of these items in a car, he does not make a judgement call and says, "Well for you it is 'ok' because I think you would only use as a 'defensive' weapon". Whereas he stops another car and says, 'well, i think you would use this as a attack weapon and therefore i will arrest you'.

One of the tactics used by bad guys is misdirection. Using something or doing something first seen as harmless but actually planning to harm you with it.

In my class I teach the 'kitty knuckles' are in the same category as 'brass knuckles' and therefore illegal per Title 1272 Unlawful Carry.


TITLE 21 § 1272 UNLAWFUL CARRY
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:

Thats why I said .."add on offence", it Certainly does happen?

It would depend on what you were doing whether Anything would be said about ..."any other offensive weapon"...heck a steel spike as an ink pen...certainly wouldnt offend me , but then I'm usually not doing anything illegal.

Now whether or not they would prosecute you for defending yourself with such a defensive weapon...depends?

Kinda gray there...heck its all kinda gray and just silly.

Thats why I carry a big flashlight , heck you could throw batterys if needed.

Or a ballpeen hammer , ya just never know when youll need one of those.

The mind is the weapon , every thing else is just....accessories....thats what should be taught....

 

[Brandi]

Not so. Any of the following items/weapons listed below in said statue could be used as an 'offensive' or 'defensive' item. That is why the law says they are unlawful. That is, you cannot say, "I am a good guy and would only use a blackjack in a 'defensive' mode. A LEO when he sees a blackjack or any of the other tools listed below does not make a judgement call of you and your possible use of said weapon. If a LEO sees one of these items in a car, he does not make a judgement call and says, "Well for you it is 'ok' because I think you would only use as a 'defensive' weapon". Whereas he stops another car and says, 'well, i think you would use this as a attack weapon and therefore i will arrest you'.

One of the tactics used by bad guys is misdirection. Using something or doing something first seen as harmless but actually planning to harm you with it.

In my class I teach the 'kitty knuckles' are in the same category as 'brass knuckles' and therefore illegal per Title 1272 Unlawful Carry.


TITLE 21 § 1272 UNLAWFUL CARRY
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:

My point was that the "kitty knuckles" carried on a woman's keychain is very unlikely to draw a charge should a LEO see them while a set of brass knuckles immediately sets off the bells and whistles. Why? Because there's no reasonable reason to be carrying brass knuckles while it's perfectly reasonable to have the plastic kitty knuckles hanging off your keychain. Certainly there's the possibility that a bad guy could use kitty knuckles as an offensive weapon, however, it's not that probable nor are they designed/marketed/commonly used as an offensive weapon, so, no, I would not consider them as a prohibited item under Oklahoma law. I seriously doubt very many LEO's would attempt to charge someone for possession either unless there were some extenuating circumstances to warrant it and, even then, it likely would be dropped. During my time as a LEO we would never have cited anyone for these nor have I ever heard of it being done in the state of Oklahoma. Until such time as the state specifically defines this product as an "offensive weapon", which I highly doubt will happen, it's a defensive weapon/tool/whatever. Obviously, you can teach whatever you like in your class, it's your business but legally speaking I would call it a "gray area" at best until the state specifically defines it one way or the other.

I'm a former LEO and I wouldn't think twice about carrying kitty knuckles, if I wanted to of course, which I don't, I have too much junk on my keychain as is.

 

[AKguy1985]

Thats why I said .."add on offense", it Certainly does happen?

It would depend on what you were doing whether Anything would be said about ..."any other offensive weapon"...heck a steel spike as an ink pen...certainly wouldnt offend me , but then I'm usually not doing anything illegal.

Now whether or not they would prosecute you for defending yourself with such a defensive weapon...depends?

Kinda gray there...heck its all kinda gray and just silly.

Thats why I carry a big flashlight , heck you could throw batterys if needed.

Or a ballpeen hammer , ya just never know when youll need one of those.

The mind is the weapon , every thing else is just....accessories....thats what should be taught....

it is kinda a gray area to me too. I carry a four D cell maglight in my car and a kubaton, and a rescue tool/knife.