I've been doing reloads for my 357 revolver. I'm noticing that the brass is hard to extract. I've not shot much factory ammo, so I was wondering if this is somewhat normal or if it means my loads are too hot. My primers do look a bit flattened, which I know means too much pressure on rifles...does that apply for revolvers too?
Yes it does apply .. but many revolvers are different and so you might be fine.
I have sent 170gr lead gas checked bullets to 1376fps with 2400 powder and magnum primers, I think that was 13.5gr and 6" barrel and I still have easy extraction and no flat primers.
But it could be the brass or a soft cup primer or a rough cylinder holding onto the brass.
What is the load you are shooting and have you measured the velocity"
I have sent 170gr lead gas checked bullets to 1376fps with 2400 powder and magnum primers, I think that was 13.5gr and 6" barrel and I still have easy extraction and no flat primers.
But it could be the brass or a soft cup primer or a rough cylinder holding onto the brass.
What is the load you are shooting and have you measured the velocity"
I'm using 2400 powder with magnum primers. I reloaded with 13.8 grains and used 158 gr jsp bullets.
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Forgot to mention I have not checked velocity.
I am shooting a 4" and 3" bbl guns (both Smith & Wessons)
I am shooting a 4" and 3" bbl guns (both Smith & Wessons)
could be rough dies making the brass rough and possibly rough chambers in the revolver as that load does not seem out of line.
I polish my dies and chambers with this and a bore mop.. sometimes I wrap some bounty paper towel piece around the mop to give it some girth.
And I use mirror glaze for the polishing ... this stuff.
or the #2
http://www.meguiars.com/en/professional/products/m0316-machine-glaze-16oz/
It could also be that the chamber where it tapers off is a bit close to the fired brass length. in other words you may need to trim the brass.
My German 357 mag will not function with most standard 357 mag ammo, as the cases are too long.
I did find my groups are best at close range with a lighter load using W231 or HP38 at long distances (100-200 yards) the 2400 was way way better.
Also look for any fouling in the barrel as this will raise pressures to extremes.
I polish my dies and chambers with this and a bore mop.. sometimes I wrap some bounty paper towel piece around the mop to give it some girth.
And I use mirror glaze for the polishing ... this stuff.
or the #2
http://www.meguiars.com/en/professional/products/m0316-machine-glaze-16oz/
It could also be that the chamber where it tapers off is a bit close to the fired brass length. in other words you may need to trim the brass.
My German 357 mag will not function with most standard 357 mag ammo, as the cases are too long.
I did find my groups are best at close range with a lighter load using W231 or HP38 at long distances (100-200 yards) the 2400 was way way better.
Also look for any fouling in the barrel as this will raise pressures to extremes.
If you have also shot .38 Specials without a thorough cleaning this could be part of the problem. Depending on the brand of the primers some light flattening with .357 could be expected. If the primer is cratered outwards that's a sign of probable overpressure. Sticky extraction may also indicate overpressure. Lots of variables here so no way to diagnose safe/unsafe across the internet in this case.
Flattened primers IS NOT a good indicator of high pressure but hard extraction is if the chambers are rough or possibly on the tight
side or your loads are a little hot.
You have to understand all firearms have to have some amount of head space for proper function, when the firing pin hits the
primer it pushes the round forward taking up HS, the round fires, pressure expands the case walls gripping the chamber and
also pushes the primer out of the pocket a bit due to head space, as pressure drops the case contracts and is pushed back
against the recoil shield/bolt face which flattens the primer a bit.
Your 13.8 of 2400 is a good middle road load depending on which load book you look at, Speer being the exception as it shows
as a start load. Did you work this load up or just pick it and load it? You should always work up from a published start load.
As has been said by others here your chambers could be rough(not likely but could be).
Try backing off on the load 10% and try again. Also you don't have to use a mag primer with 2400, just a change to
a standard primer may be enough to ease the hard extraction.
Make some load changes(one thing at a time) ether lower the powder charge or switch primers not both at one time
and report back.
side or your loads are a little hot.
You have to understand all firearms have to have some amount of head space for proper function, when the firing pin hits the
primer it pushes the round forward taking up HS, the round fires, pressure expands the case walls gripping the chamber and
also pushes the primer out of the pocket a bit due to head space, as pressure drops the case contracts and is pushed back
against the recoil shield/bolt face which flattens the primer a bit.
Your 13.8 of 2400 is a good middle road load depending on which load book you look at, Speer being the exception as it shows
as a start load. Did you work this load up or just pick it and load it? You should always work up from a published start load.
As has been said by others here your chambers could be rough(not likely but could be).
Try backing off on the load 10% and try again. Also you don't have to use a mag primer with 2400, just a change to
a standard primer may be enough to ease the hard extraction.
Make some load changes(one thing at a time) ether lower the powder charge or switch primers not both at one time
and report back.
I'll bet you have a large muzzle flash with those loads. 2400 is a relatively slow pistol powder and works best with the longer barrel handguns. I've loaded virtually every commercial pistol powder out there at different times and found those that give me the best accuracy in a given gun. At times I have had two revolvers of the same model that required different powders and loads to achieve the best accuracy. If you get a chance, fire a few of those 2400 loads out of the 3 inch at night and have someone record a short movie of it firing.. I think you will be amazed. (Be sure to do it safely...)
Thanks All! That was some insightful info.
In hindsight, I bought the brass I have as "fired" brass (may not all be "once", but it was used brass). And silly me, I didn't think that the overall length would matter and that trimming wasn't as critical. I did buy the dies as new carbide dies, so I thought it would be OK but I can take them apart and make sure they are clean. I don't lube the cases since these are carbide dies.
I will probably try two things... I will try a lighter load with 2400 (maybe in the 12 gr range) and see how that does. I also have some WIN 231 that I can try as well and see how that does. I'll do the primers if I'm still experiencing sticky brass. I do have a chronograph, but I have never used it...guess I better learn! LOL
Blitzfike, I do notice a difference in recoil sounds between the 3" and 4"! I would love to have someone do a video of me shooting that 3"!
In hindsight, I bought the brass I have as "fired" brass (may not all be "once", but it was used brass). And silly me, I didn't think that the overall length would matter and that trimming wasn't as critical. I did buy the dies as new carbide dies, so I thought it would be OK but I can take them apart and make sure they are clean. I don't lube the cases since these are carbide dies.
I will probably try two things... I will try a lighter load with 2400 (maybe in the 12 gr range) and see how that does. I also have some WIN 231 that I can try as well and see how that does. I'll do the primers if I'm still experiencing sticky brass. I do have a chronograph, but I have never used it...guess I better learn! LOL
Blitzfike, I do notice a difference in recoil sounds between the 3" and 4"! I would love to have someone do a video of me shooting that 3"!
How are you weighing the charges?
I thought about this a few days ago and if you are scooping with a lee scooper and using the data/chart provided with the scoops, I would use caution as with
new batches of powder I have never had the scoops or the powder disc's match up with my actual weight when weighed on my 505 beam scale.
With 231 and my lead gas checked rounds I found the sweet spot at 5.1gr with standard primers and no crimp.
But the lead is lubed with lee alox and it is like glue when you seat it into a case.
It is a slow round but very very accurate in my revolver.
I thought about this a few days ago and if you are scooping with a lee scooper and using the data/chart provided with the scoops, I would use caution as with
new batches of powder I have never had the scoops or the powder disc's match up with my actual weight when weighed on my 505 beam scale.
With 231 and my lead gas checked rounds I found the sweet spot at 5.1gr with standard primers and no crimp.
But the lead is lubed with lee alox and it is like glue when you seat it into a case.
It is a slow round but very very accurate in my revolver.
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