Yeah.
That polymer and lacquer stuff really builds up and sticks to non-chrome lined chambers. You can do it...but it just really sucks to clean well.
Yeah.
That polymer and lacquer stuff really builds up and sticks to non-chrome lined chambers. You can do it...but it just really sucks to clean well.
That is true but you will almost never see an hbar profiled ss barrel. I tried to get WOA to do a run for me a few years ago and John explained to me the properties were different and I wouldn't be happy with a skinny ss barrel.
I usually profile my Stainlesss barrels .75 from right after the chamber to the crown, which is MUCH skinier than an H-Bar profile. I have never been unhappy with this light of a profile and I have two that are true 1/2 M.O.A. rifles. So if anyone tells you you will be unhappy, their lath can't turn real concentric, or they just don't want to bothered to do the work. I am surprised that W.O.A. wouldn't, as I have seen several of his turned to .65 in S.S.
Polymer and Lacqure don't "build up" and it is just as easy to clean a S.S. chamber as a Chrome lined chamber.....here is where all this junk breaks down....most every chrome lined barrel has a G.I. chamber, a lot of after market barrels have a SAMMI chamber, the dimentions are just a bit different with the G.I. being a bit looser. Steel cases don't expand and contract nearly as fast as brass, so you get more blow by and stickier extraction, it has nothing to do with the coating of the case!
Here is a quick test you can do, take a Lacquerd case and a polymer case and put them on a burner coil. heat the hell out of them and just see if they run or even get sticky....just in case you don't beleive it, they won't! This is just another of those great urban legendes that simply isn't true!
Any quality barrel will clean just as fas as any chrome lined barrel ( Hart Kreiger, J.P. White Oaks...etc. Where Chrome lining shines...forgive the pun... is when you don't clean much or live in a very humid climate...it is fairly rust resistent, and fairly accuracy degrading. KurtM
Polymer and Lacqure don't "build up" and it is just as easy to clean a S.S. chamber as a Chrome lined chamber.....here is where all this junk breaks down....most every chrome lined barrel has a G.I. chamber, a lot of after market barrels have a SAMMI chamber, the dimentions are just a bit different with the G.I. being a bit looser. Steel cases don't expand and contract nearly as fast as brass, so you get more blow by and stickier extraction, it has nothing to do with the coating of the case!
Here is a quick test you can do, take a Lacquerd case and a polymer case and put them on a burner coil. heat the hell out of them and just see if they run or even get sticky....just in case you don't beleive it, they won't! This is just another of those great urban legendes that simply isn't true!
Any quality barrel will clean just as fas as any chrome lined barrel ( Hart Kreiger, J.P. White Oaks...etc. Where Chrome lining shines...forgive the pun... is when you don't clean much or live in a very humid climate...it is fairly rust resistent, and fairly accuracy degrading. KurtM
Bob said to tell John that he better go back to testing cause it is true, and David agrees also. Heck even the military agrees that the faster...the faster, so to speak....but then again that is just the word of the barrel BUILDER, not the barrel blank PROFILER. KurtM
An hbar to me is in that .75 to .85 or so range. That may not be technically accurate. But still you very rarely see ss barrels that skinny unless they are custom. I wanted WOA to turn me some in that .65 range.
I like ss barrels but if I get one that's not then it will be chromed. Just my take on it.
Do you shoot any chrome moly non chromed barrels Kurt?
I like ss barrels but if I get one that's not then it will be chromed. Just my take on it.
Do you shoot any chrome moly non chromed barrels Kurt?
Yes, I have two very nice Kriegers that are Chrome moly barrels turned .75 all the way out, both shoot great, one is at 12,000 rounds the other just over 3,000 both shoot better than I do. I like Chrome moly barrels better than S.S. but my main sponsor makes all his in S.S., so...... guess what I shoot the most. KurtM
Mike:
Bob = Bob Krieger
David = David Tubbs
Fred = Fred Flintstone, who last I checked DOESN'T make barrels...but hey that was a while ago.
Mike:
Bob = Bob Krieger
David = David Tubbs
Fred = Fred Flintstone, who last I checked DOESN'T make barrels...but hey that was a while ago.
I'll throw a couple of cents in here just for general information.
Stainless has chromium blended in the steel itself, in much higher amounts than 414x. That's what makes it stainless. It's very little different than regular steel otherwise, certainly not enough to tell any weight difference. If you machine 2 identical barrels out of 414x chrome-moly and one out of stainless you will not be able to even measure the difference in weight unless you have some really bad azz labratory scales. The stainless barrel will have a slightly longer life than the chrome moly without chrome plating internally.
Any barrel made out of 414x steel is going to perform as well as the machining that went into it. The material designation is 41 being the alloy type (chromium and molydenum) and the 4x being the carbon content. So 4140 has 40% carbon, 4145 had 45% carbon, etc. The balance of the percentage has to be made up with the alloying elements (chromium and molydenum). There are other alloys in addition to chromium and molydenum like vanadium, tungsten, and others but they are very minute amounts and not significant. Generally the higher carbon content in the steel just means that it CAN BE heat treated to a higher hardness, not that it has been. It really boils down to what kind of care went into the drilling, rifling, and reaming and also to a lesser extent how the outside profile was machined.
The reason that a chrome lined barrel isn't as accurate as a non-lined barrel is that it's impossible to get a perfectly uniform plating thickness around the the circumference AND all along the length at the same time. The thickness variance is measured down to a tenth of a thousanth of an inch (0.0001) or less but it makes a difference in accuracy. If it weren't for the rifling grooves it wouldn't be so bad, but they set up small eddys in the plating solution and it's just not possible to get it perfect. And every barrel is different just like with the machining.
For the OP's use Mike's suggestion is spot on. A chrome lined or stainless will work too, but it may not be worth the extra money. I'd buy quality machining first and foremost.
Stainless has chromium blended in the steel itself, in much higher amounts than 414x. That's what makes it stainless. It's very little different than regular steel otherwise, certainly not enough to tell any weight difference. If you machine 2 identical barrels out of 414x chrome-moly and one out of stainless you will not be able to even measure the difference in weight unless you have some really bad azz labratory scales. The stainless barrel will have a slightly longer life than the chrome moly without chrome plating internally.
Any barrel made out of 414x steel is going to perform as well as the machining that went into it. The material designation is 41 being the alloy type (chromium and molydenum) and the 4x being the carbon content. So 4140 has 40% carbon, 4145 had 45% carbon, etc. The balance of the percentage has to be made up with the alloying elements (chromium and molydenum). There are other alloys in addition to chromium and molydenum like vanadium, tungsten, and others but they are very minute amounts and not significant. Generally the higher carbon content in the steel just means that it CAN BE heat treated to a higher hardness, not that it has been. It really boils down to what kind of care went into the drilling, rifling, and reaming and also to a lesser extent how the outside profile was machined.
The reason that a chrome lined barrel isn't as accurate as a non-lined barrel is that it's impossible to get a perfectly uniform plating thickness around the the circumference AND all along the length at the same time. The thickness variance is measured down to a tenth of a thousanth of an inch (0.0001) or less but it makes a difference in accuracy. If it weren't for the rifling grooves it wouldn't be so bad, but they set up small eddys in the plating solution and it's just not possible to get it perfect. And every barrel is different just like with the machining.
For the OP's use Mike's suggestion is spot on. A chrome lined or stainless will work too, but it may not be worth the extra money. I'd buy quality machining first and foremost.
Right you are Shadowrider. As mentioned S.S. is only slightly lighter on the molecular level, and the 41x series of S.S. have a bit of Nickle added to the mix to enhance "machineability", so it has less tendency to gall while being worked and ends up with a "slicker" finish. I have also found that "barrel wear" is usually more related to the cleaning process than the actual firing....ie jointed steel rods without a bore guide, cleaning from the front, not knowing to clean from the rear....etc. KurtM
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