Backpacking in the Wichitas

[ez bake]

I'm looking to do a backpacking trip this time and stay on the trail for one or two nights (I've car-camped in Dorris - I'll have to give Fawn Creek a try; thanks for the info).

I've been up and down the Ouchita mountains (stayed in Winding Stair with the family and backpacked in the primitive backpacker site nearby when on an overnight hike). I actually prefer to go over into Arkansas for hiking these days, but Winding Stair is still my favorite secluded car-camping site in Oklahoma.

I was just thinking of hitting up Backwoods to see if they had any info so I may end up doing that. Hopefully SMS sees this is he's the man for this area. I've found a few bits of info on small hikes, but not much on doing a longer hike from one trail to the next. I've got enough gear for a longer haul, but so far I've only taken the family on an overnight (short one) to test out how they would do - we've car-camped in a number of places, but when you're hiking all of your gear in and out for 20+ miles, it changes the trip some.

 

[Sanford]

If it's any help, here's a scan from an old map showing the location of the trail from Osage to Boulder, or at least where it used to be. Hope it's big enough to show up.



We'd actually follow that trail, cross the road over to Lost Lake, then downstream from there a bit to cut back toward Forty Foot Hole and end up at Boulder. Next leg was from there back around the other side of Rattle Snake Island then up Dog Run Hollow to end up at Fawn Creek. Final leg was usually from Fawn Creek up across Elk Mountain to end up at Sunset Pool.

We'd also occasionally hike from French Lake down West Cache Creek to Lost Lake or Boulder, or vice-versa.

Whether or not any of those trails are still there, or still open to hiking, I haven't a clue I'm afraid.

 

[Poke78]

Back in 1995, I took a group of Boy Scouts getting ready for Philmont through the backcountry of Charon Gardens Wilderness. Overnight camping required a USFWS permit and the trails were, by turns, tough, primitive, or non-existent. Since GPS was not as prevalent as today, serious map/compass skills were required and tested. Additionally, getting water from native sources was required so good filters were necessary. In today's drought-stricken times, water in the backcountry might be an iffy proposition so a discussion with somebody with recent experience would be good. Another concern will be interaction with the buffalo back there so your family should be briefed on that, too.

 

[Jelf]

If a hi-res online topo map will help with planning, this link opens a map centered on a random spot in the North Mountain Wilderness.

http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?ll=34.789095,-98.701002&t=t4&z=15

The map is displayed by the Gmap4 enhanced Google map viewer I developed. Gmap4 is free for non-commercial use.

Homepage: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.html
Default map: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php

Joseph, the Gmap4 guy

 

[SMS]

I've done some backcountry hiking trips into Charon's Gardens. The refuge staff is very helpful when setting up your permit. Permits are/used to be limited to no more than 10 people allowed at a time so plan ahead.

The area where overnighting is allowed is actually not that big, so you won't really have an Appalachain Trail type hiking experience. More like a hike in, set up camp, and go exploring type.

I'll dig up some more info after work...

http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Wichita_Mountains/activities/camp/backcountry.html

 

[ez bake]

Back in 1995, I took a group of Boy Scouts getting ready for Philmont through the backcountry of Charon Gardens Wilderness. Overnight camping required a USFWS permit and the trails were, by turns, tough, primitive, or non-existent. Since GPS was not as prevalent as today, serious map/compass skills were required and tested. Additionally, getting water from native sources was required so good filters were necessary. In today's drought-stricken times, water in the backcountry might be an iffy proposition so a discussion with somebody with recent experience would be good. Another concern will be interaction with the buffalo back there so your family should be briefed on that, too.

We're actually better with rough trails and scrambling (on that side of the state - in the eastern part with more underbrush and woods, we don't go too far off the trails). We've got good filters, but water sources were definitely a concern. I wasn't sure if they got the recent rain we did over on the eastern side of the state, and I appreciate the advice on the buffalo - I forgot they were out and about and not just in the refuge-side by Doris.

If a hi-res online topo map will help with planning, this link opens a map centered on a random spot in the North Mountain Wilderness.

http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?ll=34.789095,-98.701002&t=t4&z=15

The map is displayed by the Gmap4 enhanced Google map viewer I developed. Gmap4 is free for non-commercial use.

Homepage: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.html
Default map: http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php

Joseph, the Gmap4 guy

Much appreciated man!

I've done some backcountry hiking trips into Charon's Gardens. The refuge staff is very helpful when setting up your permit. Permits are/used to be limited to no more than 10 people allowed at a time so plan ahead.

The area where overnighting is allowed is actually not that big, so you won't really have an Appalachain Trail type hiking experience. More like a hike in, set up camp, and go exploring type.

I'll dig up some more info after work...

http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Wichita_Mountains/activities/camp/backcountry.html

Appreciate the info - there's only 5 of us going, and I was starting to suspect that it might not be a long hike with some site-seeing, but rather like you said; short hike in with longer bouts of exploring. I'm cool with that - and I don't even mind coming from the long side to get to the camp-site if it means we get to site-see and explore on the way in and out.

We're not planning on doing this until the end of Summer, so I've got time to plan.

 

[SMS]

IIRC, you have to park your vehicle, with permit displayed on the dash, at or just outside the Sunset Pool trailhead area. That being said you could make a longer loop from there before entering the Garden's to camp...maybe park at Sunset and hike to the summit of Elk Mountain and find another way down the backside and then head into the Gardens area, maybe make for Crab Eyes.

There is a pretty cool boulder slide area on the west side of Elk Mountain...scrambling over the top (some deep holes and long drops so hiking in that spot with little kids could be tricky) and underneath through the caves is fun. There aren't a lot of defined trails in the Charon's Garden area, which I sort of like...just pick a destination and find your way too it.

The biggest limiting factor on the last hike was water. We went in late Sep or early October I think. We didn't get far in before the water dried up. I found one bend in a creek under some shade that had a good sized murky pool of water. We dropped our packs and walked in a ways to see if we could spot some more, but there was nothing. That pool was our anchor....we camped within a few hundred yards of it and filtered/filled up there several times. For our day hikes from the camping area we were fortunate to find a running spring on the backside of Elk Mountain.

Mind the little ones in the bushes...there are more than a few abandoned mine shafts in the area. My son found one when he stepped into some bushes to go to the bathroom...a few more inattentive steps and he would've been 5+ feet down in a water filled shaft.

I've still got the topo I ordered from the USGS and cut to fit into a map pocket....if you are coming to the Run 'N Gun I could bring it along and we can look it over.

 

[ez bake]

I appreciate that man, but I'm thinking we're going to print some maps and make an exploratory day-hike trip down there first just to get familiar with the area.

I can't find anything on the back-country fire policy, so I'm guessing it's just "no" unless there's metal grills or grates in the backcountry campsite (and I've not seen that anywhere else).

Edited - just found it - no campfires in backcountry. Well that sucks. I'm leaning more and more towards trying to find wilderness area to backpack in just so I can build a fire while in the backcountry (because to be honest, that's one of the best parts about hiking/camping - sitting around the camp fire at night).

 

[Poke78]

I appreciate that man, but I'm thinking we're going to print some maps and make an exploratory day-hike trip down there first just to get familiar with the area.

I can't find anything on the back-country fire policy, so I'm guessing it's just "no" unless there's metal grills or grates in the backcountry campsite (and I've not seen that anywhere else).

Edited - just found it - no campfires in backcountry. Well that sucks. I'm leaning more and more towards trying to find wilderness area to backpack in just so I can build a fire while in the backcountry (because to be honest, that's one of the best parts about hiking/camping - sitting around the camp fire at night).

New concept for the cavemen among us (includes me): LNT = Low/No Trace camping, especially in the backcountry.

 

[ez bake]

New concept for the cavemen among us (includes me): LNT = Low/No Trace camping, especially in the backcountry.

I understand that, but I've of the opinion that the responsible hiker/camper can leave little to no trace (or even benefit the area) and still build a fire provided they only use dead/down trees for wood and put the fire-pit area back to how you found it before leaving. Wilderness backpacking seems to rely more on user-responsibility than national wildlife/park areas (I get why, but it sucks that some can ruin it for others).

Meh - I'm just glad I live in an area where I can enjoy the outdoors. I need to get on the trail soon, I'm about to go crazy being indoors for as much of spring/summer as I've been inside so far.