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Discussion in 'NFA & Class III Discussion' started by AC37, Jun 5, 2008.
I want to remember that it was about $75 when he did my Beretta.
Curtis is quoting me a flat rate of $100 per gun, and $25 more for thread protectors for each. Even more if he has to move and/or adjust the front sight, which would probably have to be done with the guns I'm looking at. Ouch. I was thinking maybe it would cost maybe half that, at the upper limit.
He does have quick turn-around times, though - probably same day while I wait for one or two guns, from what he said.
For the very low-end price ranges I'm looking at (sub-$300 guns), having him do the barrel threading is just not cost-effective, compared to the other options available. I'm sure it would be great for a multi-thousand dollar gun, though. I'll probably just order pre-threaded aftermarket barrel(s), it will be around the same price, maybe slightly more, but maybe even a little cheaper - going that route will also completely forgo having to redo the front sight on each applicable gun, and I'll have a spare barrel, or one I can sell it to recoup some $$$.
I am extremely leery of who I let thread things for my suppressors. I also don't buy cheap barrels.
While at first it may not seem like it will be cost effective, depending on what you are threading, and which after market barrels you are using, and how they do their threading, it may be worth a few extra bucks to know that it was done right. (How's that for a run-on sentence?)
For example, I would not use a FAC barrel or just any gunshow barrel or one that was threaded by someone in their garage. I would and do use Barsto, KKM, and Jarvis. I have not used Lone Wolf although they seem to have a decent reputation. I would only buy an after market barrel that had been purposefully threaded for a suppressor by the manufacturer or a reputable shop.
For getting custom work done, I have used Tornado Technologies and Hi Desert Dog. Although, I did have a baffle and end cap strike with a Hi Desert Dog 10/22 barrel back when he did all of his business on eGay.
Not saying that a cheap barrel or thread job is going to be bad, but it may not worth saving a few bucks to have a suppressor ruined. Particularly in light of the new Gem-Tax.
The idea of having a $100 thread job on a $200 dollar 10/22 only sucks until you think about replacing a $375 silencer and a $200 ATF bribe.
I completely understand what you're saying, and that is an important consideration.
I have received a recommendation for Hi Desert Dog, and from talking with him he seems like a great guy. However, one of the guns I was looking at doing was a 10/22, and your baffle strike comment concerns me...what was the outcome of that? And what is the new Gem-Tax you refer to?
I bought a 10/22 barrel from Hi Desert Dog a few years back. I installed the barrel, threaded my Warlock on, loaded a couple of rounds into the magazine then fired them into the bullet trap here in the house. The second round key-holed the target. I cleared the rifle, removed the suppressor, and sure enough, a bullet had grazed the last baffle and the endcap. It was just enough to leave a noticeable mark on both but not enough to cause any real damage. I got very lucky.
Upon closer inspection, the threads were not concentric to the bore. It took a micrometer to tell but it was far enough off that it caused that strike.
I called Hi Desert Dog up and explained what had happened and he very quickly sent me a replacement barrel. He even offered to get the suppressor repaired. I did not feel that it was necessary but I was impressed that he offered anyway.
The barrel that he sent me was perfect and now has several thousand trouble free rounds through it.
I would buy another from him, especially since he has started doing this stuff full time.
The "Gem-Tax" refers to the letter that Gem-Tech allegedly sent to ATF seeking clarification on alterations and repairs to silencers. There are a lot of theories and accusations about the reasoning for the letter, but you can read them for yourself on Silencertests.
Anyway, ATF came back with a FAQ stating that if any change is made to the tube, that it constitutes a new suppressor and needs another stamp. The extra $200 stamp is called the "Gem-Tax".
Thanks for the info, and I'm glad to hear there was no permanent damage. Sounds like HDD is a real stand-up guy in fixing the issue - if anything, that makes me even more confident in buying from him than I was before.
So on the Gem-Tax thing...that only applies to the tube, right? Even if the baffles were completely garbaged, replacing them wouldn't need a new stamp, correct?
It's my understanding that since the tube is the serialized part, that it can't be significantly altered without a new stamp. The baffles should be able to be replaced by the manufacturer without another transfer. I'm not completely sure about that though, but I don't think that anyone, much less the manufacturers and ATF is.
I can't see replacing the baffles requiring another tax. I think they get away with it on the tube because it's serialized and they don't want two tubes running around with duplicate serial #'s (even if one is damaged).
That's the way it was explained to me.
Personally, I think there really ought to be a way to log a part as "destroyed," so a new one could be created without additionally charge to a person.
But that would forfeit money to the government, and with a group who has a motto engraved into multitools like, "Always Think Forfeiture," what do we really expect?
That's how it used to be, like when Olympic was destroying old M16 lowers and then putting the old serial numbers on new lowers. That used to fly, now it does not, though the ATF put the kibosh on that several years back because Olympic was not always the original manufacturer. ATF has since broadened their view.
Really it could be worse, as it is now, even if you have to pay the Gem-Tax, you don't have to go through the BS of fingerprints or CLEO signatures. At least, that is how it has been explained to me. I have a can getting rebuilt at SWR right now and I don't know yet whether or not I will be subject to the Gem-Tax.
Besides, look for more and more silly and arbitrary rules and findings to come down from ATF once we get another democrat in office. I have a gut feeling that these are the "good old days." Enjoy them.