Breach Loading the first round in your CCW (semi-auto)

[grwd]

................unless your gun's extractor was designed from the ground up for Direct Chamber Loading.

true that, beretta M9's needed that requirement per uncle sam.

I dont know about designed from the ground up though,


Still doesnt mean its the greatest thing to do..Im sure youll agree.

 

[DanB]

GlockCop told a few of us a story last year at the OSA get-together.

One of his fellow troopers had a .357 sig round that had been repeatedly chambered. Get home every night unload the gun. Wake up the next morning and reload the same round into the chamber. This was what he carried on duty. The setback was sever. Either the RO or Armorer saw it and told the guy to toss it or risk blowing up his gun.

hopefully GC will chime in to fill in the details.

Bullet setback is possible. Is it a concern to be so worried about that change up the method of loading your gun in such a way that you cause undue stress on a vital component of the firearm. Nope.

 

[NikatKimber]

On range mostly guns (less carried), I have begun putting an FMJ round on top, so if it does set back it's a cheaper round. For my usual carry gun, I try to unload as little as possible, and when I do, change the order in the mag.

 

[criticalbass]

Some weapons have been known to discharge when the slide hits the round in the chamber. Likely? No. Possible? With some guns, especially if the firing pin channel gets gunked up.

Looks like most are leaning toward loading from the mag. Good idea. CB

 

[ez bake]

Some weapons have been known to discharge when the slide hits the round in the chamber. Likely? No. Possible? With some guns, especially if the firing pin channel gets gunked up.

Looks like most are leaning toward loading from the mag. Good idea. CB

I can't imagine that this would be an issue only with dropping the slide with a round in the chamber - wouldn't a gunked Firing pin channel cause the same issue either way?

I appreciate all the feedback - I knew there was a reason I didn't do it, I just didn't know what it was. I don't guess I fully grasp the physics of how a spring-loaded piece of hardened steel (the extractor) can be stressed or even broken by going around the rim of a brass shell - especially since the contour of most extractors are designed at an angle to travel over the lip of a semi-auto shell, but I also understand that I don't know much about this area, so I'm willing to heed the advice whether I understand it or not.

Anyone want to elaborate on how this is that stressful to an extractor, or am I over-simplifying it?

 

[ssgrock3]

Bullet setback from chambering can make a round Very short and extremelly high pressure. Probably wouldn't kill you, but sure is a loud, snappy round and unsafe. The solution is easy gents, look at your ammo, duh. Not hard and takes no time. Pay attention everyone.

now back to the subscribed channel...where are the berettas and what do they cost?

 

[Rob72]

MBB HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

All pistols I can think of have controlled feed.

Do not drop one in the chamber to load, whether its a plastic or steel handgun.

They are not designed to be loaded that way. period.

So speaks an honest man. Many .45 smiths have padded their coffers by extolling the virtues of the "polished extractor".

 

[NikatKimber]

Anyone want to elaborate on how this is that stressful to an extractor, or am I over-simplifying it?

Well, first off, generally everything designed by an engineer should be "over engineered," as in, it should be designed to handle without drastic failure some extreme cases.

OK, so with that in mind, a gun can be designed for loading from the mag, but be capable of being breach loaded. In other words, it's like a "factor of safety." The barrel and gun are designed to handle without drastic failure an over pressure round. You are NOT maxing out the gun at maximum charges. Again, this is an extreme case. It is designed this way so that if you do inadvertently end up with a slightly over pressure round (ie, what ssgrock was saying, you don't realize a round has been setback enough to cause increased pressure, and fire it anyways), it shouldn't blow the gun up. But a steady diet of those rounds could.

Now, specifically about the extractor. Breach loading the gun requires the extractor to flex out by the depth of the rim. Compared to "normal" function, this is again, an extreme. The larger the percentage of deformation, the faster steel fatigues. The amount of difference here is probably 4-5x more deformation when breach loading vs mag loading. This relationship is NOT linear. So, by increasing the amount of deformation 4-5x, could easily decreasing life by a factor of 10 or even a 100 for the extractor. Something else, steel has an "infinite life" band, where if deformation remains below a certain percent, the steel will not fatigue. If the extractor is designed within these specifics, then by breach loading you will limit the part to a fatigue life that it otherwise would not have.

Next, "hardened" steel, is actually very brittle. Just due to the nature of the extractor, I doubt they are truly "hardened" steel. True hardened steel takes very little energy to break. It acts much like glass, which is very high strength, but shatters when impacted.

 

[ez bake]

Well, first off, generally everything designed by an engineer should be "over engineered," as in, it should be designed to handle without drastic failure some extreme cases.

OK, so with that in mind, a gun can be designed for loading from the mag, but be capable of being breach loaded. In other words, it's like a "factor of safety." The barrel and gun are designed to handle without drastic failure an over pressure round. You are NOT maxing out the gun at maximum charges. Again, this is an extreme case. It is designed this way so that if you do inadvertently end up with a slightly over pressure round (ie, what ssgrock was saying, you don't realize a round has been setback enough to cause increased pressure, and fire it anyways), it shouldn't blow the gun up. But a steady diet of those rounds could.

Now, specifically about the extractor. Breach loading the gun requires the extractor to flex out by the depth of the rim. Compared to "normal" function, this is again, an extreme. The larger the percentage of deformation, the faster steel fatigues. The amount of difference here is probably 4-5x more deformation when breach loading vs mag loading. This relationship is NOT linear. So, by increasing the amount of deformation 4-5x, could easily decreasing life by a factor of 10 or even a 100 for the extractor. Something else, steel has an "infinite life" band, where if deformation remains below a certain percent, the steel will not fatigue. If the extractor is designed within these specifics, then by breach loading you will limit the part to a fatigue life that it otherwise would not have.

Next, "hardened" steel, is actually very brittle. Just due to the nature of the extractor, I doubt they are truly "hardened" steel. True hardened steel takes very little energy to break. It acts much like glass, which is very high strength, but shatters when impacted.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking - that tiny amount of flex doesn't seem like much at all, but I guess in comparison to what the extractor is designed to do, its actually quite a bit.

Thanks for the enlightening discussion guys - it seems like we've not had too many gun-related threads like this in a while, so when I got to talking to my friend about this, I thought I'd put it on here to see what everyone thought.

 

[ldp4570]

I don't think it's so much the breaking of the extractor(yeah it does happen) as it is the wearing down of the point over time to where you start getting FTE, failure to extract, cause the point has been worn down to where it no longer properly engages the rim. Nikat is right, the extractor isn't made of super hard steel, as this would over time chip or break. But the constant slaming of the extractor against the casing will eventually cause the extractor to round out i.e. dull the sharp edge to where problems will arise with function. Most of your modern guns have a proper feed ramp to keep setback to a minimum if any. In the early days of semi's and hollowpoint ammo the feed ramps were very steep, and originally designed for ball ammo, so some of these guns, such as the Walther P38 had little or no feed ramp causing the round to hang up. If battered enough they could possibly be set back enough to cause overpressure issues.