I think to resolve this the entire party that went there to shoot needs to have a free pass to go shoot there again and it needs to be hand delivered by Larry, pleasantly this time.
As far as companies asking for your first-born child in order to be allowed to buy from them...
I've never bought anything from H&H, but I did buy a pair of boots a couple weeks back in Tulsa and the company (Gellco) and their attitude pissed me off a bit, because of the information-gathering thing. I first went to the store downtown, on Detroit, I think? They didn't have the size I needed, but the guy was pretty nice and he called the store over on 31st & Garnett, he said they had them there. So I drove all the way across town to go there. Tried on a couple pairs that weren't available at the downtown store and decided on the ones I wanted and the lady took them to the counter to ring me up.
So, I hand her my credit card and she asks for my phone number, to which my standard reply is, "I'd rather not," or "No, thank you." She looks at me real puzzled-like and asks if she can have my name. I asked why and she said they take people's information for their records. I asked why, and she said so that they can differentiate from different people, like she said, you know there may be 12 different John Browns working for different companies. Ok, well, I'm not seeing what this has to do with me purchasing a pair of boots... so I politely decline, then she asks if she can make a copy of my driver's license instead. I'm flabbergasted by this, as I've never had any company ask for this, and if I don't want to give you my name, address and phone number, why the hell would I allow you to copy my freaking driver's license????? I told her politely again, no, and she is flustered, acting like she isn't sure she can make this sale. I told her that was fine, I would just leave and make my purchase somewhere else if it was that big of a problem - I know what I want now, what fits, and I figure screw it, if it's this much damn trouble, I can order the same boots off Amazon and prolly even save a few bucks. She's looking super confused and flustered at this point, I don't know if she cares about losing the sale (I dunno if they work on commission, but I doubt it), but she just looks like the whole situation is not computing for her... she's never had anyone refuse to give their information! I mean... do people by and large seriously just give this crap out all the time? I mean, I'm hoping not to get anymore junk mail, but when she asked about copying my DL, I'm really thinking this is weird. I dunno that she personally wanted to do anything bad with it, but where they hell are they keeping this stuff, and who the hell had access to it? I mean, since when is this standard business practice? I know when you keep peoples' Social Security info, you're supposed to meet specific guidelines as to how you keep that info under lock and key and protect access to it, but damn. With my DL copy, someone could commit some serious fraud. I don't think so.
I told her she was welcome to look at my DL to verify my identity (she had never asked this) since I was using a credit card, and she eventually did this and rang up my boots and we left. It was all very polite, although I laughed quite skeptically several times, and she appeared very flustered and uncomfortable, but it was a very strange encounter. I can tell you, if anything like this occurred at a gun store trying to buy small parts or accessories (especially with cash!) I'd straight walk out, too. If they insisted, that is. Very VERY few purchases would I allow them access to that kind of information. I just can't fathom how free with this info people actually are these days. <sigh>
I've never bought anything from H&H, but I did buy a pair of boots a couple weeks back in Tulsa and the company (Gellco) and their attitude pissed me off a bit, because of the information-gathering thing. I first went to the store downtown, on Detroit, I think? They didn't have the size I needed, but the guy was pretty nice and he called the store over on 31st & Garnett, he said they had them there. So I drove all the way across town to go there. Tried on a couple pairs that weren't available at the downtown store and decided on the ones I wanted and the lady took them to the counter to ring me up.
So, I hand her my credit card and she asks for my phone number, to which my standard reply is, "I'd rather not," or "No, thank you." She looks at me real puzzled-like and asks if she can have my name. I asked why and she said they take people's information for their records. I asked why, and she said so that they can differentiate from different people, like she said, you know there may be 12 different John Browns working for different companies. Ok, well, I'm not seeing what this has to do with me purchasing a pair of boots... so I politely decline, then she asks if she can make a copy of my driver's license instead. I'm flabbergasted by this, as I've never had any company ask for this, and if I don't want to give you my name, address and phone number, why the hell would I allow you to copy my freaking driver's license????? I told her politely again, no, and she is flustered, acting like she isn't sure she can make this sale. I told her that was fine, I would just leave and make my purchase somewhere else if it was that big of a problem - I know what I want now, what fits, and I figure screw it, if it's this much damn trouble, I can order the same boots off Amazon and prolly even save a few bucks. She's looking super confused and flustered at this point, I don't know if she cares about losing the sale (I dunno if they work on commission, but I doubt it), but she just looks like the whole situation is not computing for her... she's never had anyone refuse to give their information! I mean... do people by and large seriously just give this crap out all the time? I mean, I'm hoping not to get anymore junk mail, but when she asked about copying my DL, I'm really thinking this is weird. I dunno that she personally wanted to do anything bad with it, but where they hell are they keeping this stuff, and who the hell had access to it? I mean, since when is this standard business practice? I know when you keep peoples' Social Security info, you're supposed to meet specific guidelines as to how you keep that info under lock and key and protect access to it, but damn. With my DL copy, someone could commit some serious fraud. I don't think so.
I told her she was welcome to look at my DL to verify my identity (she had never asked this) since I was using a credit card, and she eventually did this and rang up my boots and we left. It was all very polite, although I laughed quite skeptically several times, and she appeared very flustered and uncomfortable, but it was a very strange encounter. I can tell you, if anything like this occurred at a gun store trying to buy small parts or accessories (especially with cash!) I'd straight walk out, too. If they insisted, that is. Very VERY few purchases would I allow them access to that kind of information. I just can't fathom how free with this info people actually are these days. <sigh>
Having been in the shop while visiting the Tulsa area, I can also confirm they do not discriminate against the skinny folk either.
It's the fact that most people just do what they're told without thinking.
Here's a similar example, one with which you're likely familiar: patients have to be advised of their privacy rights, and--to prove that it happened--the office (quite reasonably) asks them at intake to sign an acknowledgement that they'd read and agreed to the policy.
The last three docs I visited, they gave me the acknowledgement form with the intake form. I asked for a copy of the privacy policy; they couldn't find it. I said flatly that I'm not going to state in writing that you gave me a copy of the privacy policy when you haven't. Hung. Them. Up.
When I bought my tractor, I was BSing with the salesman, and he asked me what I did. Told him I was a law student...and that my dad was a contracts attorney, and he'd disown me if I ever signed a contract without reading it. Come half-an-hour later, he hands me the contract...and is surprised (and annoyed) that I didn't just sign it.
So yeah, they're everywhere.
Yeah, that I agree with. People sign away their rights all the time.
Speaking of CC transactions, I think it's worth reading the merchant agreement regarding checking ID. This is a contract between Visa and the merchant. If they don't follow it, report them.
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-merchants.pdf
Requesting Cardholder ID
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa Rules do not preclude
merchants from asking for cardholder ID except in the specific circumstances discussed in this guide,
merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot as part of their
regular card acceptance procedures refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder
refuses to provide ID. It is important that merchants understand that the requesting of a cardholder ID
does not change the merchant’s liability for chargebacks. However, it can slow down a sale and annoy
the customer. In some cases, it may even deter the use of the Visa card and result in the loss of a potential
sale. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures.
Laws in several countries also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information,
such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt. If you are suspicious, follow recommended steps
listed above under Unsigned Cards.
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-merchants.pdf
Requesting Cardholder ID
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa Rules do not preclude
merchants from asking for cardholder ID except in the specific circumstances discussed in this guide,
merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot as part of their
regular card acceptance procedures refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder
refuses to provide ID. It is important that merchants understand that the requesting of a cardholder ID
does not change the merchant’s liability for chargebacks. However, it can slow down a sale and annoy
the customer. In some cases, it may even deter the use of the Visa card and result in the loss of a potential
sale. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures.
Laws in several countries also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information,
such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt. If you are suspicious, follow recommended steps
listed above under Unsigned Cards.
Wow... I didn't know that. I prefer them asking for my ID, and I usually thank sales clerks that do.
Yep. My favorite is when people at Wal-Mart ask to see a receipt. I just say no thanks and keep on walking. They don't do it much anymore, I think Wal-Mart figured it was a waste of manpower.
Cheeseburgers at 4U
